Talk:Chiune Sugihara

Early Life

Article says "His father and family moved into the tax office within the branch of the Nagoya Tax Administration Office one after another." One after another what? Looks like it means the family moved from tax office to tax office, but I'm not sure and I don't know whether each one was somehow "better" than the previous one, or what. Can someone who knows about this clarify? Mcswell (talk) 21:54, 20 June 2022 (UTC)

Team work

What we know as "Sugihara" was a team work. Sugihara cooperated with the Polish itelligence. Polish officers of Home Army produced false Japan visas using Sugihara's ones. The majority of those people died murdered by the Germans, Soviets and Polish Communists. Polish embassy in Japan helped the refugees. Why did the authors remove any trace of Polish part in "Sugihara" action? Probably because the source was his wife, who ignored secret part of Sugihara's activities.

• I'm afraid that this point is not widely accepted or at least not famous. If this is "too secret" cooperation (ie. there is no reliable evidence because - conveniently - the others involved are dead) it is "too secret" for wikipedia. If it is something you or somebody has independently researched, it falls under "original research" which is also unsuitable for Wikipedia. If you want to include it, state clearly the source (ie. according to whom) - Skysmith 14:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

Or you can ask that others help find such a 'reliable source' (as defined in WP:RS).Tlhslobus (talk) 21:28, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

And the links in the text below (which I may or may not eventually check out myself) may or may not prove useful in this context:

The relations between Mr. Chiune sugihara and the Polish Intelligence Agency are completely investitated by a Polish excellent scholar, Dr. Ewa Palasz-Rutkowska. It’s a summy of her study : http://www.asjapan.org/Lectures/1995/Lecture/lecture-1995-03.htm For futher reading : http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a777429408~frm=titlelink?words=romer,a

(The above text is a sentence written by User:Tizizano at the noticeboard discussion 'Is Hillel Levine's Biography of Chiune Sugihara a reliable source?.')Tlhslobus (talk) 22:20, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Ministry

The ministry of Foregin Affairs was replaced in 1940. I find the statement "The Japanese Foreign Ministry, still needing Chiune's language and organizational skills, decided to postpone disciplinary action until his skills were no longer needed" speculative. It doesn't also precise, which of the ministries is being mentioned where in the text.

• Please sign your posts with "~~~~" after the message. If you find it speculative, correct it. Citing your sources also helps - Skysmith 14:56, 9 November 2005 (UTC)

I have removed the statement that Sugihara was the only Asian named "Righteous among the Nations". There were two others, Dr. Feng-Shan Ho, the Chinese consul in Vienna from 1938-1940, and Pan Jun-Shun. See http://www1.yadvashem.org/righteous/bycountry/china.html. Bill 20:43, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

According to ..., Sugihara would have cooperated

You aren't quoting "The Sun" but an academic work. Xx236 13:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Sugihara saving Jews

From all the materials I read about this affair I haven't found any evidence that either Sugihara or the Jews he helped were aware of an imminent German attack on the Soviet Union. The intention, I think, of those Jewish refugees from Poland applying for transit visas was to leave the Soviet Union. The fact that the number of those seeking visas reached its peak in the months immediately following Lithuanian ascension to the USSR, to support my suspicion. Indeed, if Jews thought Germany would soon overrun border areas they could have move to interior regions of the Soviet Union. Sugihara, though as a diplomat working for the Japanese intelligence, he certainly was in a better position to learn about the underlying political developments, but in August 1940 Hitler had yet to make any definite plans to invade the USSR, so even he was unlikely to know anything. In light of this, I suggest that all references to him saving Jews are removed from the article.

71.222.26.122 00:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC) Abram Schlimper

• I was about to ask that myself. The only people Sugihara seemed to be saving Jews from were communists, he stopped about a year before the German invasion. Woscafrench (talk) 18:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

You are correct on both points. As for the preceeding remark, following Lithuanian ascension to the USSR, I never heard that one before (even in Salomeja Neris' poems), concerning the events in Lithuania in June-August 1940. Dr. Dan (talk) 21:21, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Jewish life under soviet rule was considered unbearable for the Jews living in Lithuania. Jews were regularly persecuted and not allowed to practice their religion freely. The Soviet persecution of the Jewish people was well known by 1940. Additionaly many would chose not to become Soviet citizens thus being sent to Siberia and prison. For those who chose soviet citizenship they would soon be overrun by the Nazis.

Additionally Polish refugees after witnessing what had happened in Poland understood that it would not stop at the border of Poland but rather continue. There are many accounts of Polish refugees who tried to warn people in countries that an attack was imminent only to be rebuffed with "my country is safe, Hitler would never attack us"

So the Jews were ultimately saved from both the communists and the Nazis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.179.158.150 (talk) 13:00, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

This article is confusing, Jews were pretty pro-Communist in Eastern European countries during the 1930's and 1940's and I think were pretty supportive of Soviet occupation as there was anti-semitism in Lithuania too. Also it seems odd that if many Jews were so desperate to escape the Soviet Union they would go about it by traveling through the Soviet Union. I know non-Secular Jews and Orthodox Jews suffered under the Soviet Union but under Nazi occupation in Lithuania 91% of Jews were killed by NAZI Germany and pro-Nazi Lithuanians, which is one of the highest percentage wise in Europe. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.243.131.183 (talk) 13:00, 9 August 2011 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !

In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :)

• "s285" :
  • Levine, p. 285.
  • [see above]

DumZiBoT (talk) 07:32, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Confusing

The first paragraph is confusing. It reads:

Soon after the occupation of Lithuania by the Soviet Union, he helped several thousand Jews leave the country by issuing transit visas to Jewish refugees so that they could travel to Japan. Most of the Jews who escaped were refugees from Poland or residents of Lithuania. Because of his actions in saving Jews from the Nazis, Sugihara was honored by Israel as Righteous Among the Nations.

This blurs the distinction between helping Jews escape Stalinist rule and saving them from the Nazis. Of course, with hindsight one can say that Sughihara's actions had the unforeseen effect of saving their lives, but it would useful if there were some explanation in the article of what they were fleeing from in 1940. Norvo (talk) 00:24, 20 December 2008 (UTC)

A spy also ?

"Records pertaining to General Onodera Makoto, head of Japanese Military Intelligence in Europe. They identify Sugahara Chiune, Japanese official in Lithuania who became known for issuing visas to Jewish refugees, as one of Onodera's espionage agents.cf http://www.archives.gov/iwg/reports/japanese-interim-report-march-2002-1.html ???Trente7cinq (talk) 09:42, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

Hillel lawsuit

Does anyone know what happened to this? See [1] and [2]. Thanks. Dougweller (talk) 13:00, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

> As Sugihara stated in a conversation with a visitor to his home near Tokyo Bay that year:

Don't you understand what I say ? What says Hillel Levine is not true. Mr. Chiune Sugihara has been in Kanagawa Prefacture, NOT IN TOKYO !!!!

Why have you represented the quotations by Hillel Levine, who can't understand JAPANESE !!!Tizizano (talk) 11:59, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

Raised at WP:RSN#Is Hillel Levine's biography of Chiune Sugihara. Dougweller (talk) 12:42, 8 February 2011 (UTC)

The lawsuit started in 2002. In 2005 the two sides agreed to a settlement whereby 500,000 yen was paid to Sugihara Yukiko.

More sources

Copies from my talk page.

REQUEST

See WP:RS. It is a reliable source by our standards, but if you have reliable sources that contradict it you can add it. I see some of his family supported Hillel - have you read http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,404316,00.html and http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=3007045 - and do you know what happened to the lawsuit? This should really be discussed on the article's talk page. Dougweller (talk) 13:01, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

? and do you know what happened to the lawsuit? Of course, Yes. I’ve attended the court to see the reality. Don’t you know that Hillel Levine can’t read Japanese ? There are not any Japanese in the bibliography made by Hillel Levine. The relable resouces is following :

• Chapman J.W.M., “Japan in Poland's Secret Neighbourhood War”in Japan Forum No 2/1995. • David Kranzler, Japanese, Nazis and Jews, Hoboken, NJ, Ktav Publishing House, 1976. • Marvin Tokayer & Mary Shwarz, The Fugu Plan, New York, Paddington Press, 1979. • David G. Goodman & Masanori Miyazawa, Jews in Japanese Mind, New York, The Free Press, 1995. • Pamela Rotner Sakamoto, Japanese Diplomats and Jewish Refugees, Westport, CT, Praeger Pnblishers, 1998. • Alison Leslie Gold, A Special Fate. Chiune Sugihara, New York, Scholastic, 2000. • Seishiro Sugihara & Norman Hu, Chiune Sugihara and Japan's Foreign Ministry : Between Incompetence and Culpability, University Press of America, 2001. • Dom Lee & Ken Mochizuki, Passage to Freedom. The Sugihara Story, New York, Lee & Low Books, 2003. • Mordecai Paldiel, Diplomat heros of the Holocaust, KTAV Publishinh House, NJ, 2007.Tizizano (talk) 21:19, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Then use them. What happened to the lawsuit? If you think a source doesn't meet our WP:RS guidelines you can go to WP:RSN, and the sources above should be added to the article talk page for others to see. Dougweller (talk) 21:36, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Hellow, Mr. Dougweller.

You have written :“Sugihara settled in Fujisawa in Kanagawa prefecture.”and also “As Sugihara stated in a conversation with a visitor to his home near Tokyo Bay that year:”.

Please watch carefully the map of Japan, for example through Google Earth.

The city of Fujisawa is situated near SAGAMI BAY !.......... not situated near Tokyo Bay.Tizizano (talk) 21:37, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Please, please use the talk page. I did not write the above, I don't think I've written any of the article, are you posting on my talk page because you think I wrote it? Dougweller (talk) 21:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

I understand and I'll transfer what is concerned this topic to MY TALK.Tizizano (talk) 00:24, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

Reliability of Hillel Levine's "In Search of Sugihara"

The discussion below is copied here for reference from the Talk Page of Jewish settlement in Imperial Japan. HarryZilber (talk) 20:19, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

User:Tizizano, who is also involved in the preceding item above, has objected to the inclusion of Levine, Hillel. (1996). "In Search of Sugihara", and removed it as well as another citation from the bibliography of this article a few days ago, with a blank Edit Summary. I reverted its deletion and am now including this reference to a lengthy Reliable Source Notice Board discussion on the topic of this book which is highly relevant to the article: Is Hillel Levine's Biography of Chiune Sugihara a reliable source?.

A quick skimming of the notice board discussion did not reveal any consensus that the book could not be considered a reliable source. In the notice board discussion User:Tizizano was counseled a number of times that if other reliable sources contradict Levine's, those sources can be included and the article could be edited to reflect contrary information; however as far as I can see there was no consensus that Levine's book was unreliable. Best: HarryZilber (talk) 19:32, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Please peruse the noticeboard thread. No one said it was reliable after my refutation. Levine might be a expert on Jew but not on Japan and Japanese. He didn't know even the difference between Tokyo bay and Sagami Bay. I do not know his other works, but his book on Sugihara was very sloppy and unreliable. Oda Mari (talk) 06:50, 21 March 2011 (UTC)

pseudonym

does the fact that sugihara used the pseudonym "sempo" really belong in the first paragraph? the first paragraph should be a general overview of the contents of the article- this seems to be a relatively minor detail. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.114.105.254 (talk) 10:10, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

From what I can tell a few older sources list his name only as Sempo Sugihara, so it makes sense to explain the discrepancy in the opening. --EminentCluster (talk) 01:13, 17 April 2013 (UTC)

• • • Japanese writing can be read in multiple ways. Same characters in different context may be read differently. That includes the names to the extent that sometimes Japanese may ask somebody else how they pronounce their name (so they would not cause offense). To my knowledge, "Sempo" is one way to read the characters of Sugiwara's personal name "Chiune" and I have seen the name "Sempo" in many books and dictionaries about this part of the Holocaust and the Righteous Among the Nations. So it is not a _pseudonyme_ as such. It is a different way to read his name - Skysmith (talk) 18:02, 28 January 2022 (UTC)

A slight confusion of numbers

From the article:

Sugihara's widow and eldest son estimate that he saved 10,000 Jews from certain death, whereas Boston University professor and author, Hillel Levine, thinks it was far higher at around 10,000.

I'm fairly sure that 10,000=10,000. So what is this paragraph supposed to say? 85.220.22.139 (talk) 20:30, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

I was wondering the same thing. Rammer (talk) 02:32, 15 June 2013 (UTC)

It would be nice to give locations of the several memorials

I don't know if there is any general Wikipedia policy on this, but it would be nice to give locations for the several Sugihara memorials, especially since Google doesn't seem to know about the Los Angeles Little Tokyo statue.

If anyone wants to act on this, that memorial is at approximately 184 South Central Avenue, or +34.0479 -118.2392 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Wolfamade (talk • contribs) 02:09, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Sugihara and Poles

Polish underground issued many visas literally copying Japanese ones. Many Poles who produced false visas were murdered by the Nazis (or Soviets), Sugihara did quite well.Xx236 (talk) 07:05, 20 July 2015 (UTC)

"Manchurian Foreign Office"

This term is clearly incorrect. I would fix it, but I'm not sure what is meant. 216.8.154.6 (talk) 17:38, 28 October 2015 (UTC)

What's with the neutrality dispute thing?

I see nothing here on the talk page. --Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 04:19, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

It was a drive-by tagging. And IMO, it should be treated the same as real life drive-by tags, removed by painting over them. I usually give these things a week, if nobody can defend the reason for the tag, delete it. Dave (talk) 03:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

OK. I will remove it then, as it has been up since February. --Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 04:18, 16 April 2016 (UTC)

Lithuania

The article includes this random tangent "That same year, 45 years after the Soviet invasion of Lithuania," with no further explanation. What is the relevance of the 45 years after the invasion of Lithuania to this article? Dave (talk) 03:04, 12 April 2016 (UTC)

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A book by Marcel Weyland

A lot is written about Sugihara from the survivor Marcel Weyland in his book "The boy on the tricycle" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.177.2.232 (talk) 06:35, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

Added pageview chart

I have just added a pageview chart to this talk page. From it you can discern the effect of the Google Doodle of 2019-07-29. --Roger Hui (talk) 15:45, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

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