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The religion jump

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Looking at [1] it seems that blood libel is now spread about Muslims as well. It's hardly surprising as many antisemitic myths are recirculated that way. The problem is where to fit it into the article. Any advice? // Liftarn (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 21:55, 2 January 2014

Also, looking historically to the Pre-Roman era, many other groups in the semetic region were subject to Blood libel. While human sacrifice had long fallen out of favor and only a few cults (mostly in carthage) practiced human sacrifice, almost always their own, excluding the ritual execution of prisoners of war, it was very common for nations to claim blood libel against another nation as justification of war. I cannot doubt that due to the historic evidence Carthage practices matching the descriptions, this is where they drew their inspiration from as well. (Sorry for not logging on, lazy today)--24.208.189.58 (talk) 02:49, 4 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]
You are presupposing that the accusations were false. But is that warranted (in all the cases)? 105.8.6.9 (talk) 04:50, 14 June 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Precursors

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There is interesting material in Bill Ellis. Aliens, Ghosts, and Cults. Univ. Press of Mississippi. p. 53 ff. ISBN 9781617030017.. All the best: Rich Farmbrough, 17:38, 4 February 2015 (UTC).


Blood Libel 19th Century Edit

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Hello!

I am a student at Chapman University. As a part of a senior-level course, we are required to edit a small number of Wiki pages we believe may need additional information. I plan to add a small amount of information regarding an incident of blood libel that occurred in the 19th century under the list of blood libel incidents. I have listed my source below, and would love any feedback that could be offered.

EKChapman (talk) 07:28, 2 May 2023 (UTC)EKChapman[reply]

Emanuele D’Antonio, “Jewish Self-Defense against the Blood Libel in Mid-Nineteenth Century

Italy: The Badia Affair and Proceedings of the Castilliero Trial (1855-56),” in Miscellanea

2019, eds. Quest Editorial Staff, Quest. Issues in Contemporary Jewish History. Journal

of Fondazione CDEC, n. 14 December 2018 EKChapman (talk) 07:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Did you do this? Hope you did Jim Killock (talk) 19:44, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Cases that don't belong here

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The first sentence of the article clearly defines: "Blood libel or ritual murder libel (also blood accusation) is an antisemitic canard which falsely accuses Jews of murdering Christian boys in order to use their blood in the performance of religious rituals." The article, however, includes all kinds of cases in which Jews were simply accused of murdering non-Jews. This goes against the definition and that is enough to strike them. But in fact such mixing ends up lending credibility to the libel itself. Because nobody in their right mind can deny that in history psychopaths or otherwise disturbed persons who were Jews have murdered, tortured and raped non-Jews. So if we equate such true or possible cases with the blood libel, it makes the latter appear possible as well in the eyes of the reader. 178.4.151.244 (talk) 17:55, 7 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I made the same point a few years ago. Either the definition has to be expanded, or the examples have to be restricted to those fitting the definition. Zerotalk 21:52, 8 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

“canard”?

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The lede says that blood libel is an “antisemitic canard”. This phrasing was introduced in this revision to replace “accusation”.

I’d like to suggest changing “canard” to “trope”. My only reason is that “canard” may not be as widely understood (as it’s a less common word), despite its more specific meaning.

Comments welcome! Mifield 20:28, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

A "trope" is generally taken as something less malignant than a "canard." On that basis, I'd keep it the way it is, using trope would water it down to lose much of its meaning. Acroterion (talk) 20:31, 6 August 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 26 January 2024

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Change “* Allegations of genocide against Palestinians by Israel have been described as a form of blood libel by some critics.[1][2]” to “* Allegations of genocide against Palestinians by Israel have been described as a form of blood libel by some critics.[3][4] In contrast, several leading Jewish and Israeli anti-Zionist academics[5][6][7][8] and organizations[9][10][11][12] have similarly described the state of Israel’s continued treatment of Palestinians by classifying it as a genocide,[13][14] citing the Ten stages of genocide alongside genocidal language incited against Palestinian civilians living in Gaza invoked by Israeli officials during the 2023 Israel-Hamas War.[15][16][17]”

Rationale: substantive information was removed on the grounds of irrelevance to the article, despite the information being incredibly relevant to current global events and the immediate paragraph around History - further citation also added. 74.15.198.165 (talk) 23:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@74.15.198.165 This info clearly is not relevant to the article. Users can visit the wiki linked page. The ongoing war in Palestine doesn't belong on the Blood libel page. glman (talk) 23:35, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Not done: Requested edit has been contested. —Sirdog (talk) 00:16, 28 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Nelson, Cary (7 June 2009). Israel Denial: Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism, & The Faculty Campaign Against the Jewish State. Indiana University Press. ISBN 978-0253045089.
  2. ^ Fandos, Nicholas (11 November 2023). "Two Young Democratic Stars Collide Over Israel and Their Party's Future". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Archived from the original on 18 November 2023. Retrieved 11 November 2023.
  3. ^ Nelson, Cary (7 June 2009). Israel Denial: Anti-Zionism, Anti-Semitism, & The Faculty Campaign Against the Jewish State. Indiana University Press. ISBN 978-0253045089.
  4. ^ Fandos, Nicholas (11 November 2023). "Two Young Democratic Stars Collide Over Israel and Their Party's Future". The New York Times. ISSN 0362-4331. Archived from the original on 18 November 2023. Retrieved 11 November 2023.
  5. ^ "We're anti-Zionist Jews and we see genocide unfolding in Gaza | US news | The Guardian". amp.theguardian.com. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  6. ^ "Public Statement: Scholars Warn of Potential Genocide in Gaza – TWAILR". web.archive.org. 2023-11-17. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  7. ^ Glass, Charles (1975). "Jews against Zion: Israeli Jewish Anti-Zionism". Journal of Palestine Studies. 5 (1/2): 56–81. doi:10.2307/2535683. ISSN 0377-919X.
  8. ^ Flakin, Nathaniel (2023-10-21). "A Brief History of Anti-Zionist Jews". Left Voice. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  9. ^ Miszak, Debrah (2023-12-19). "Current and former members of the Union for Reform Judaism call for cease-fire". The Forward. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  10. ^ Walker, Chris (2023-12-12). "18 Jewish Elders Arrested Following Gaza Ceasefire Protest Outside White House". Truthout. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  11. ^ "Jewish Leaders Organize to Halt Israel's Bombardment of Gaza". Democracy Now!. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  12. ^ "Reckoning with Genocide, 75 Years After the UN Convention". Independent Jewish Voices Canada. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  13. ^ "The Genocide of the Palestinian People: An International Law and Human Rights Perspective" (PDF). 50 Years on the Frontlines for Social Justice. Centre for Constitutional Rights: 1–9. 2016.
  14. ^ Hackel, Joyce (22 November 2023). "Standing Together leaders discuss attempts to open Jewish-Arab dialogue amid Gaza war". The World from PRX. Retrieved 29 December 2023.{{cite news}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  15. ^ Press Releases, Special Procedures (16 November 2023). "Gaza: UN experts call on international community to prevent genocide against the Palestinian people". United Nations’ Human Rights Council: Office of the High Commissioner. Retrieved 29 December 2023.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: url-status (link)
  16. ^ "Jewish Voice for Peace calls on all people of conscience to stop imminent genocide". Jewish Voice for Peace. 2023-10-11. Retrieved 2023-12-30.
  17. ^ "ICJ's Gaza decision shores up rules-based order and puts west to test". The Guardian. 2024-01-26. Retrieved 2024-01-26.

Lists vs content

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Some point the article should probably split into a content article and move the lists into a separate article. At the moment the later sections need more explanation of the evolution of blood libel, and I would say should pick the most important examples within a narrative and perhaps place the examples onto their own page. Jim Killock (talk) 17:42, 19 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2024

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In the 19th century section, the paragraph starting "In March 1879, ten Jewish men..." should be changed to "In March 1879, nine Jewish men." You may want to add the following citation where the case, including the number of defendants, is discussed in detail: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/02634937.2024.2302581 Amiens98 (talk) 08:56, 5 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Done — I had a lot of trouble finding a copy of the source attached to the "ten Jewish men" claim, and I could not confirm one way or the other what it says. This source seems better researched on this particular event, though, and is more recent, so I've changed ten to nine in the article and cited this new article, unless something changes or someone objects. This also needs to be changed on the article for Kutaisi. 〜 Askarion ✉ 16:28, 6 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

How can this possibly be known?

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The section Origins in England contains this passage:

"The eight-year-old Hugh disappeared at Lincoln on 31 July 1255. His body was probably discovered on 29 August, in a well. A Jew named Copin or Koppin confessed to involvement. He confessed to John of Lexington, a servant of the crown, and relative of the Bishop of Lincoln. He confessed that the boy had been crucified by the Jews, who had assembled at Lincoln for that purpose."

But how is it possible to know what someone may or may not have confessed to 769 years later?

In case this is what was written down, how would it be possible to know whether the writing is factual or fictional?

And just in case the person did indeed confess, how do we know that the confession was not coerced (and therefore unreliable) rather than offered honestly without coercion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:204:f181:9410:81dc:95ec:4786:4968 (talk) 19:07, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

We follow what the sources say. It is pretty clear that the confession was coerced, since the content is nonsense. But it would be nice to have more than just the blanket statement that "A Jew named Copin or Koppin confessed to involvement". --Hob Gadling (talk) 18:19, 25 August 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 12 October 2024

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Remove "this is controversial because Jewish groups object to it". The sources you supplied do not say this. This source refutes it: https://cbnisrael.org/2024/01/18/modern-blood-libels-ugly-untrue-and-unparalleled/ Mollye5299 (talk) 19:15, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Removed the Jewish groups objecting to it. That work? Andre🚐 19:20, 12 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
 Already done ⸺(Random)staplers 05:35, 14 October 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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