Template talk:Programming languages

Deleted

This template has been deleted per Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_May_25#Template:Major_programming_languages. I have left the talk page in place if people want to discuss alternatives to this template. —Ruud 20:29, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I was one who originally wanted to delete this template because of its inherit POV issues, but ultimately I agreed with other editors on a compromise of using this template as a navigation aid. I do agree that the template had gotten out of hand as fans of non-major languages kept inserting their favorite languages. I would have voted to keep and fix the inclusion criteria (as I had lobbied to do at another time, but was shot down). At any rate, I am sad that as a significant editor of this template, I was not notified that the template was up for deletion. Wikipedia needs to be changed to make it a requirement that all past editors are notified when something is brought up for deletion consideration. —  Stevie is the man!  ^{Talk | Work} 19:15, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

You didn't follow the deletion discussion? matt kane's brain 21:30, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I didn't know it was up for deletion. I don't watch all articles I've ever edited. I like to maintain my sanity. :) —  Stevie is the man!  ^{Talk | Work} 22:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

_khkuuhku

Oh, I thought that you meant you were the one who nominated it for deletion. Is it forbidden to bring it back now? matt kane's brain 12:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

If something has been deleted, it is generally not a good idea to try to resurrect it, unless perhaps all the problems discussed in the deletion process are resolved. —  Stevie is the man!  ^{Talk | Work} 17:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

One idea that came to me is that perhaps we should have a template that linked to families of programming language, with the actual languages linked on those articles. It is usually easier to get people to agree on a classification of a language than it is to get them to agree on its notability, and things can always be in two lists if necessary. GreenReaper 18:34, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

I'm the template creator. I was not aware that the template was up for deletion, although I had been watching it, but I rather expected it to get deleted eventually - although I believe it was a useful navigation aid, it was too subjective. As for linking to proglang families, adding more clicks to reach common articles of interest compromises its role as a navigation aid. Maybe it would be better to define a similar template using a purely objective criterion such as statistics research listing the number of programmers who know/use a language. Whatever. Deco 20:04, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

merging template

suggest merging with the following template

--Ramu50 (talk) 01:30, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

--Ramu50 (talk) 23:13, 12 September 2008 (UTC)

Bash

Why is Bash listed as a language, rather than "shell script" or "bourne shell scripting"? Bash is a single shell implementation. It's not even used on many unixlikes: BSDs, etc.

Lua

Looking at this, and I realize this is always an arbitrary point, but I wonder why Lua is not included? Technopeasant (talk) 22:14, 1 February 2016 (UTC)

Criteria and status

I am confused by #Deleted, since recent edits have added invocations on several pages. Also, I don't see any discussion of criteria. Is there any reason not to list

• PL/I
• Rexx
• Raku (Perl 6)

"Assembly" is listed as a language but it is actually a type of languages, and the syntax of assemblers varies drastically even for a single machine. Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz Username:Chatul (talk) 15:33, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

Removing recent additions

I recently removed two languages that were added (cc Poppodoms), ArkTS and Cangjie (programming language), as they both very recent, Huawei-developed languages that as far as I know do not have wide usage and have not influenced other languages. My removal was reverted and so I'm opening a discussion here. I think if anyone else wants to remove them per WP:BRD, that would be fine, otherwise I will remove them if there's no strong argument for retaining them in the next few days, also per WP:BRD. Skynxnex (talk) 18:13, 8 July 2024 (UTC)

That second criteria should be the argument to also remove Apple Swift, because it have also not influenced other languages, it is only Apple centric. And there other programming languages that have no wide usage that are on the list as well. So I challenge this argument Poppodoms (talk) 06:54, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

If you want to make this site, this encyclopaedia that is part of it's objective, the free encyclopaedia with a global logo of symbols and languages. Make it global and objective for the world, the world to be informed in a changing emerging market with an emerging 3rd mobile platform with 900 million install base and 4% global market share outside 17% local market share over Apple iOS, then it should not be reduced to being US centric in this subject matter of programming languages, technologies, don't make it geopolitical nor "US/Western" only. You said, these new programming languages are "not significant" because it's "not widely used" = your assumption is "Chinese centric", "local", there are programming languages on the list from US and few European markets that are not "widely used" outside the United States and Western Europe, outside smaller western markets. So, make the list objective and keep Wikipedia global in wide information. I will continue to make the strong argument for this case and will continue to do so for the next few days until it is resolved in keeping this list at a balance, fair and objective list. Poppodoms (talk) 07:05, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

i agree with poppodoms, he's right. XeVierTech (talk) 08:06, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

The proper place for these two languages are in List of programming languages (which I notice you haven't added them to), not the limited space in the template. I agree that it's important to make sure the list isn't western-centric but nothing I've read suggests that either language comes close to overall impact as any of the other languages listed. ArkTS, for example, is mostly cited to first-party sources and press release-style news.

For example, if I noticed and thought about it how I happened to in this case, I probably would argue that Dart (programming language) should not be on the list, even though it's from Google and used as the language of Flutter. Lists like this are hard but more valuable to the reader if we keep them to languages that have had impact on programming languages in general, which Swift (partly due to its age now) has had. But we're not discussing every entry right now, just these two which are completely out of line compared to the others. Skynxnex (talk) 12:52, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Exactly, now you get it, that's all. Make it balanced. I get what you are saying, I agree with you when it comes to less notable like Dart. Poppodoms (talk) 12:55, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Based my knowledge and some new searching, Dart (which is not currently in this template, to be clear) is significantly more notable, and impacts more platforms, than either language you added. Skynxnex (talk) 13:00, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I am aware that Google's Dart is older and more notable than 2021 eTS (extended TypeScript)/now called ArkTS and recent 2024 Cangjie (after rumours of such in-house language since 2020). Poppodoms (talk) 13:02, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

Dart is from 2011 Poppodoms (talk) 13:03, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

On the list of programming languages, yes it will be appropriate to add ArkTS and Cangjie on that link itself. Poppodoms (talk) 12:57, 9 July 2024 (UTC)

I've removed them again per WP:BRD, the discussion above, and the COIN discussion. I think affirmative consensus should be needed to re-add these to languages going forward. Skynxnex (talk) 18:14, 14 July 2024 (UTC)