Talk:Tragopogon

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link to Image:Dandelionsmall.jpg removed and that image submitted to Wikipedia:Images for deletion WormRunner 21:26, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)

Scorzonera vs Tragopogon

I've done some quick reading on the subject of the Salsify, especially the black or spanish salsify. It is not completely clear to me, but as far as I've read, the Black or Spanish Salsify is a member of the Scorzonera genus, not the Tragopogon. Could someone with true biological knowledge find out and edit the list of species on this page?

Thanks a bunch,

bluppfisk

I'd like to know a good recipe for this one. Knowing that this is a good food to eat, perhaps let me know. Should taste like a combination of asparagus and yucca plant.

Chef's Greetings,

--Horn66.174.79.226 03:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)[reply]

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New Info needed

Could somebody please add a description (and preferably a photo too) of the root of salsify, ie the part used in cooking?

Marquetry28 (talk) 05:30, 12 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Salsify title (move?)

I think that we may want to move this article to Tragopogon, and have salsify as an article on the vegetable (or dab). I know it's dicey with multiple topics qualifying for the same term, salsify, but the vegetable topic is the most prosaic and the one for which those searching would most likely expect to find at "salsify" without complications, and therefore the most logical article to have at salsify. For comprehensiveness in the discussion, I'm aware of purple salsify (Tragopogon porrifolius), Spanish salsify (Scorzonera hispanica), and arguably yellow salsify (Tragopogon dubius) as species cultivated and sold simply as salsify; are there others that should be also considered as factors in assigning the topic for salsify? ENeville (talk) 21:52, 15 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Botanically speaking, that would be much less awkward. I don't know enough about the food aspects to say whether one of those species is the primary topic or whether it would make sense to just write a "salsify" article which focuses on the use as food. The latter would probably work just fine as long as the different kinds of salsify are moderately similar in terms of their culinary uses. Kingdon (talk) 21:34, 16 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I'm pretty sure that, in the US at least, Tragopogon never shows up in markets. Supermarkets and farmer's markets occasionally carry a black rooted vegetable labeled as either "salsify", "oyster plant" or less frequently, "scorzonera". I've never seen white rooted salsify in a market. As far as I am aware, there are no black-rooted cultivars of Tragopogon, so the vegetable is probably Scorzonera. Seeds of Tragopogon are pretty widely available, so some people in the US must be growing it (and it's widely naturalized), but I don't think it's being marketed. I have seen imported canned "salsify" that has been pre-peeled in some specialty markets. That might be Tragopogon. Verifying this may be an issue; there seems to be very little awareness of this confusion. Searching the internet for salsify invariably yields tons of pages that deal primarily with Tragopogon with Scorzonera mentioned as an afterthought. Although this probably doesn't qualify as a reliable source, this page (http://www.cookipedia.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Salsify) suggests that Scorzonera is the more common vegetable in the UK as well.

In short, I support moving the botanical information in this article to Tragopogon and focusing the Salsify article on culinary uses of both Tragopogon and Scorzonera. Tragopogon may have been the more important salsify in the past but currently Scorzonera appears to be far and away the vegetable usually sold as "salsify".Plantdrew (talk) 19:15, 26 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

3 editors (including myself) have voiced support of moving this article to Tragopogon in the last 3 years, and nobody has voiced any opposition. I've purchased "salsify" and allowed it to sprout so I can see the leaves 4 times (from various markets in one region of the US) and have found the leaves to be characteristic of Scorzonera hispanica rather than any Tragopogon. It's WP:OR, but while salsify is a common name for both, I've only encountered S. hispanica as a vegetable. I am moving the article to Tragopogon and moving the current Salsify (disambiguation) here.Plantdrew (talk) 02:55, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I can't make the move. Requesting a move. I should note I found that the UK page I mentioned previously [(http://www.cookipedia.co.uk/wiki/index.php/Salsify] has scraped their assertion that Scorzonera hispanica has replaced T. porrifolius as the vegetable commonly sold as salsify from Wikipedia's Tragopogon porrifolius article; however no reference is supplied here either. Also, while the salsify article currently asserts "the vegetable called salsify is usually the root of the purple salsify, Tragopogon porrifolius" based on the unreferenced statement in the page on purple salsify itself, and my own WP:OR, this does not seem to be the case.Plantdrew (talk) 03:19, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. DrKiernan (talk) 15:02, 20 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Salsify → Tragopogon – The content of the current article Salsify is primarily about the botanical genus Tragopogon. Plantdrew (talk) 04:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Per WP:FLORA, scientific names are generally preferred over common names for the titles of articles about plants. Salsify is a common name for both Scorzonera hispanica and Tragopogon porrifolius when used as a vegetable, but is also used for any of several weedy species of Tragopogon. Based on my own WP:OR discussed in the Talk:Salsify page and an unreferenced statement in Tragopogon porrifolius, the vegetable called salsify is usually S. hispanica, not any species of Tragopogon. The article Salsify could be moved to Tragopogon with no changes, and Salsify (disambiguation) could be moved to Salsify with the addition of other weedy species such as Tragopogon pratensis and Tragopogon dubius in the disambiguated Salsify page.Plantdrew (talk) 04:17, 4 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

--Relisted Vejvančický (talk | contribs) 11:38, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strong support "Salsify" by itself always signifies the vegetable to me, although I would say that this is T. porrifolius not the vegetable called "scorzonera" which S. hispanica. This may be an ENGVAR issue (I'm British). What is quite clear is that "salsify" is far too ambiguous a term to serve as an article title and that its main uses do not refer to the genus Tragopogon. Peter coxhead (talk) 12:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I searched Google images for "salsify" from .uk sites. Most images are of the the leaves/flowers of T. porrifolius. However, the images of roots include many examples of a dark-skinned root that appears to be Scorzonera (e.g. [1], [2], [3]). Salsify appears to be used as a common name for Scorzonera in the UK as well as the US. I acknowledge that this is OR, and lament the lack of a RS to support my contentionPlantdrew (talk) 15:48, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support Good example of why using common names as titles is a mess to begin with, but this is the genus article and should have that title. Eau(W)oo (talk) 13:49, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support This article belongs at Tragopogon. A quick browse through a few dictionaries seems to confirm that "salsify" refers to the vegetable. Kingdon (talk) 14:21, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support This is an article on Tragopogon. Salsify is not a vernacular equivalent to the genus name, so the dab page should be moved here, rather than leaving a redirect to the genus article. Lavateraguy (talk) 14:40, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What would go on the proposed disambiguation page other than the black or Spanish salsify, Scorzonera hispanica? --Bejnar (talk) 22:57, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

"Salsify" is used in the common name of a number of Tragopogon species, e.g.Tragopogon dubius has the common name Western Salsify, so the dab page should link to some of species of Tragopogon as well as noting that "salsify" may be found as a name for "scorzonera". Peter coxhead (talk) 02:40, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yup The dab page should be cleaned up a bit too (currently it says "Salsify is a genus", which it isn't. --SB_Johnny | ^talk✌ 22:26, 16 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Support since it seems that not all tragopogons are salsifies and not all salsifies are tragopogons. And in many areas the local Tragopogon species are called goatsbeards, anyway.--Curtis Clark (talk) 16:54, 17 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.