Talk:Province of Georgia

Map of territorial claims

The following off-site maps show the various claims of the original Thirteen Colonies: [1], [2], [3], and [4]. If this information could be included in a map of this province's claims. It would be great. (This request was originally made by jengod, and I moved it here.) – Quadell ^{(talk) (bounties)} 16:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

How would this be different to the map that's already on the page? -- Astrokey44|talk 04:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

The map in the article now doesn't show how far west it extends. I thought that at one time it was claimed all the way to the Pacific Ocean. Is that correct? Bubba73 (talk), 04:29, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes ... the original charter extended to the Pacific Ocean. I have updated the article and provided a reference. Bravissimo594 (talk) 19:14, 14 April 2016 (UTC)

Wasn't that Spanish or French territory though? -- Astrokey44|talk 08:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I don't know. Someone more familiar with history would know. Bubba73 (talk), 16:07, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I think this article really needs a more proffesional looking map. It's a bit, er...MS Paint-ish.

The map now used Wpdms georgia colony 1732.png looks pretty good to me, and shows the limits of the original grant in about the same way as maps published by Oglethorpe. Hughespj 16:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Vandalism?

Ummmm, are those last two related articles legit? "great mage" and "potchface" sound a bit strange. I tried to look them up, but could not find a page on either term. Has this just been overlooked, or am I just mistaken?

Yes, I have requested on the admin's talk page for semi-protection. We shall see what happens now. --Avenzhang (talk) 00:45, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

It has been semi-protected. --Avenzhang (talk) 00:40, 2 October 2013 (UTC)

Territorial expansion

Worth adding here as well, I'd have thought.--GwydionM 13:17, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

(after ec) Well, the main addition came with the Royal Proclamation of 1763 which states "We have also, with the advice of our ivy Council aforesaid, annexed to our Province of Georgia all the Lands Iying between the Rivers Alatamaha and St. Mary's." The western boundaries were not specified, although the original charter had a sea-to-sea provision. The same proclamation also created the provinces of East Florida and West Florida.

The Government of East Florida, bounded to the Westward by the Gulph of Mexico and the Apalachicola River; to the Northward by a Line drawn from that part of the said River where the Chatahouchee and Flint Rivers meet, to the source of St. Mary's River, and by the course of the said River to the Atlantic Ocean; and to the Eastward and Southward by the Atlantic Ocean and the Gulph of Florida, including all Islands within Six Leagues of the Sea Coast.

The Government of West Florida, bounded to the Southward by the Gulph of Mexico, including all Islands within Six Leagues of the Coast; from the River Apalachicola to Lake Pontchartrain; to the Westward by the said Lake, the Lake Maurepas, and the River Mississippi; to the Northward by a Line drawn due East from that part of the River Mississippi which lies in 31 Degrees North Latitude, to the River Apalachicola or Chatahouchee; and to the Eastward by the said River.

According to the West Florida article (a specific source is not given), in 1764 "the British moved the northern boundary to a line extending from the mouth of the Yazoo River east to the Chattahoochee River (32° 28′ north latitude)." The Spanish Florida article has similar information, but gives the year as 1767 (and also does not provide a specific source).

So apparently the Province of Georgia would have included land north of 31° to the Mississippi River (based on the sea to sea provision in the charter). Now, here is where it starts to really get murky. First, most of the western area was under the de facto control of Native American tribes so European powers and later the US were making claims for the nominal ownership of land they did not yet directly control (and for which there were not even any very good maps at the time). In the Treaty of Paris (1783) with the US, the boundaries were described in part as

a line to be drawn along the middle of the said river Mississippi until it shall intersect the northernmost part of the thirty-first degree of north latitude, South, by a line to be drawn due east from the determination of the line last mentioned in the latitude of thirty-one degrees of the equator, to the middle of the river Apalachicola or Catahouche; thence along the middle thereof to its junction with the Flint River, thence straight to the head of Saint Mary's River; and thence down along the middle of Saint Mary's River to the Atlantic Ocean;

In separate treaties signed with Spain at about the same time, the British ceded both Florida provinces to Spain, but did not specify the northern boundaries. Spain at first claimed the expanded 1764 (or 1767) boundary, while the United States demanded that the boundary be at the 31st parallel. In the Treaty of San Lorenzo of 1795, Spain recognized the 31st parallel as the boundary.

In the secret Third Treaty of San Ildefonso of 1800, Spain returned France's Louisiana colony, however the boundaries were not specified. After France sold the Louisiana Purchase to the United States in 1803, the US claimed the territory from the Perdido River to the Mississippi River, which had been a part of the old province of Louisiana when the French had ceded it in 1763. The Spanish insisted that they administered that portion as the province of West Florida and that it was not part of the territory returned to France in 1800.

The present map of the Province of Georgia Image:Gacolony.png may be somewhat inaccurate, as the Province (or colony) ceased to exist in 1776 (or at least by 1783). It seems that the Province never had any claim to the southern portions of the western territories. But the state of Georgia apparently did claim the land, and made quite a spectacle of selling the same land multiple times in the Yazoo land scandal.

BTW, the portion "ceded" by South Carolina in 1787, was really more just an acknowledgment of cartographic realities regarding the headwaters of the Savannah River. This is a very confusing topic to try to puzzle out. I suspect that there have been scholarship in this area that may help, but I'm not familiar with any. older ≠ wiser 14:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Just want to add that I'll happily modify the map if you find something that needs changing. I did combine provincal and early statehood claims, because they are dificult to seperate - that might be clarified just with a change in the title or caption. When I was doing my research it was unclear when Georgia started claiming the SW portion (that was disputed with Spain), but as you mention it was clear that they were doing so by the time of the Yazoo land scandal so I included it in their claim based on that. Kmusser 14:43, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

Ask for protection?

We've had dozens of silly attacks on this page. All of them from unregistered users, and I can't see why someone who knows about this particular topic should not be registered. I'm suggesting we request the administrators to lock out unregistered users trying to make changes.--GwydionM (talk) 16:49, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Are people against asking for protection for the page? Or is it easier to undo a dozen times a day? --GwydionM (talk) 16:57, 13 October 2008 (UTC)

Split proposal

As we are now authorized to bring Wikipedia:WikiProject Georgia (U.S. state)/New Georgia Encyclopedia/Trustee Georgia into mainspace, and may soon be able to bring over the corresponding NGE article on "Royal Georgia" covering the period from 1752-1776, I propose that rather than merging Trustee Georgia into this article, we should merge what relates to that period into Trustee Georgia and move the article to that title, and separate out "Royal Georgia" for a later merge. bd2412 T 19:34, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

You're talking about only the portion that relates to the Trustees and not the entire article or are you talking about merging Province of Georgia with Trustee Georgia and getting rid of this article? There seems to be a pretty good format for articles on provinces and I'm not sure that messing with it is a good idea. See Province of Virginia and Province of Pennsylvania for examples. Reb (talk) 23:00, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm referring to the portion of this article that relates to the Trustee period. The thing is, if and when we are able to bring the rest of the NGE articles here, there is a well-developed article on the Royal period, so we would end up with too much for one article anyway. Paradoxically, we must demonstrate our ability to effectively work in this small release of materials in order to secure the release of the larger share. bd2412 T 23:36, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I've moved Trustee Georgia to mainspace. I think we can work out this article to be an overview of the period covered by Trustee Georgia, the following 20+ year period of "Royal Georgia", and Georgia during the American Revolution. Thoughts? bd2412 T 03:23, 12 February 2010 (UTC)

First Settlement

what was the first settlement in georgia. please help fast its for school and its due today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.108.112.121 (talk) 13:33, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

seal

Does this seal belong on this article? John Vandenberg ^(chat) 06:19, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Looks like a 19th-century reproduction of the seal. I'd say no. — ℜob C. alias ÀLAROB 01:38, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Never a province

The word "province" was never part of the official name of any of the thirteen British colonies that later formed the United States, yet nine of the titles of the thirteen articles on those colonies include "province". All nine articles should be moved and retitled. WCCasey (talk) 19:39, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

What's the proof about "official" name???--- no RS is given. Rjensen (talk) 02:34, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

See the complete debate at Talk: Thirteen Colonies. WCCasey (talk) 01:18, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

A narrow strip on the Pacific???

Atlantic Ocean 2600:1700:13B0:DCF0:A8F7:1F1F:1B6F:C595 (talk) 02:10, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

Read the given source for that information, the Charter of Georgia: 1732; it says:

We... do give and grant to the said corporation and their Successors... all those lands, countrys and territories, situate, lying and being in that part of South-Carolina, in America, which lies from the most northern part of a stream or river there, commonly called the Savannah, all along the sea coast to the southward, unto the most southern stream of a certain other great water or river called the Alatamaha, and westerly from the heads of the said rivers respectively, in direct lines to the south seas...

Obviously the Atlantic Ocean is not "westerly from the heads of the said rivers respectively"—it's easterly from the heads of those rivers. The term "South Seas" was once used to refer to all of the Pacific Ocean, rather than just that part of it south of the equator, as in present times. An old book, A History of Georgia, from Its First Discovery by Europeans to the Adoption of the Present Constitution says the same thing more clearly:

It granted to them "all those lands, countries and territories situate, lying and being in that part of South Carolina, in America," between the Savannah and Altamaha; and westerly, from the heads of the said rivers, respectively, in direct lines, to the Pacific, and the islands within twenty leagues of the coasts.

Carlstak (talk) 03:04, 4 October 2022 (UTC)