Talk:Lists of Chinatowns

why Moscow was removed

I deleted Moscow's "Chinatown", because it's a common mistake. Even though the Russian name of this neighborhood clearly states Китай-город (Kitai-gorod), or Chinatown, the word Kitai does not mean China in this particular case. It is believed that the name Kitai-gorod comes from the word kita - a bunch of wooden poles which were used for constructing either scaffolding or buildings themselves. And there was never a Chinatown in Moscow (you can take my word for it :), I was born there). KNewman 21:37, Nov 16, 2004 (UTC)

Other cities in Europe

I am doing a research on Chinatowns in Europe. In your list, you list only Belgium as the only European country with Chinatowns. Manchester, London or Paris are listed later on. I would suggest to reorganize the list. Furthermore, Madrid, Milano and Prato (Italy) are not listed. Prato for example has 16000 Chinese citizens. You might define "Chinatown" differently, but either Prato or Milano would fall under your defintion. Hungary should also be mentioned (Budapest). Hamburg in Germany has also a large Chinese community. I have not researched on that city. Just wanted to mention it. wyder.biz

Koreans

What I find disturbing is that someone is indiscriminately adding Korean areas as well as generically Asian shopping centers to the list of Chinatowns. Baltimore's Chinatown has faded out of history yet it is listed here as if it still exists.

I'm going to agree. While yes, there are many Asians in certain areas (like Richmond, whose only mention of Chinese people is Pacific East Mall on Pierce St has many Asian stores, including 99 Ranch Supermarket, many asian restaurants, and a Chinese bookstore.) that does not mean they're Chinatowns. And many of the towns in the Bay Area and LA are all Asians now, not just Chinese. Just seems uninformed to me, and the articles themselves don't warrant them to be in the list. But I'm not gunna go in and delete half of the cities, because most have legit Chinese populations. Jjjsixsix 19:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC)

List of Chinatowns

Hey, I think there's too much confusion between the "External Links" and the "List of Chinatowns". The external links seem to give a "list of chinatowns". What if we merge those 2 articles together? At least we can then look at one page to see all the chinatowns combined with the useful external links.

I think the entire article now looks like a mess. A clean-up would also be recommended but not necessary. 84.193.199.32 08:58, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

richmond, ca

there used to be a chinatown listed here for Richmond, California, does anyone know why it was removed? Qrc2006 02:07, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

There are two Richmonds in the Bay Area. This list is mostly referring to the Richmond district in the city of San Francisco itself and this area is generally regarded as the Bay Area's second and more modern "Chinatown". Then there's a separate Bay Area community north of Pakland, called Richmond, California, which only has one Chinese strip mall. The original link was pointing to the latter, not the former.

Contradiction

Chinatown, Kolkata claims to be India's only Chinatown, while this list claims that there is one in Mumbai.

This article is the one with the mistake. I'm changing it to say Calcutta. Here's a source: http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/world/archives/2004/07/31/2003181147--Osprey39 22:38, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Regarding NYC Chinatowns

Is the Avenue U Chinatown really in Homecrest, Brooklyn? Chinese newspaper usually mention Sheepshead Bay. --Voidvector 19:58, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Citation of parameters needed

Where is the citation for this set of parameters? -

General criteria for Chinatowns A Chinatown should share many of these characteristics. More modern and newer Chinese commercial areas may be nebulous.

*A currently or historically Chinese-speaking community outside of Mainland China PRC, Taiwan ROC, Hong Kong SAR, and Macao SAR and maintain relative ties to these regions.

*Older Chinatowns, officially recognized as Chinatown by local governments, historical societies, and so on.

*In older Chinatowns, Chinese-style arches serving as entrance markers.

*Center of community trade. A self-sustaining and concentrated community with goods and services and serving as a major cultural and commercial hub for foreign-born and native-born overseas Chinese.

*Chinese-language newspaper presses.

*A dense concentration of competitive immigrant-owned shops offering imported authentic Chinese and general Asian goods (for example, ginseng and herbs, Video CDs) not found in the larger society and geared towards ethnic Chinese population.

*Family and regional associations and community organizations

*Observation of Chinese New Year or Lunar New Year, with traditional Chinese dragon and lion dances

*In Western countries, populated by ethnic Chinese immigrants, principally from Mainland China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Vietnam and from various countries.

First off, the presence of Chinese language presses would indicate 7th & Clark in Vancouver, where the World Journal offices are located.....come to think of it, that particular area was historically China Creek, the first real concentration of Chinese in Vancouver formed as a refuge at the SE end of False Creek after the riots of the winter of 1885-86, from where Chinese moved back into the core of the city and then focussed on Dupont Street, which before the riot and in fact for many years afterwards into the 1890s continued as a centre for non-Chinese businesses, notably sporting houses (bordellos) (NB it was the Chinese merchants who found being adjacent to the bordellos suitable, not the non-Chinese who "forced" them there or the madams who chose to set up shop amid the Chinese markets; rather the other way around). But the whole East End of Vancouver, including all of Kingsway's neighbourhoods as well as South Vancouver and the Hastings & Nanaimo/Renfrew area, and now much of the West Side, if most of thee parameters above are invoked, should be included. Or as is often the saw about Vancouver these days "the whole city is Chinatown". Focussing on the 41st and Fraser strip of businesses as if it were a Chinatown or called a Chinatown is entirely spurious; what about 1st & Renfrew, for instance? Or most of Heritage Mountain in Coquitlam? And in a case like Bangkok's where there is a definable named Chinatown (Yaowarat) it happens that much of Bangkok's Thai-speaking/identifying population is Chinese-ethnic (including, er, the royal family). So isn't Bangkok, by the sloppy/sweeping definitions above, a "Chinatown". Also see comments on Talk:Barkerville, British Columbia about towns in BC that were near-entirely Chinese, but never called Chinatowns.

But to sum up, point blank, the above list is missing any citation at all and given the passion of certain contributors to Chinese-ethnic pages for citations, it seems rather odd that none are provided; especially when the descriptions are as loose as they are to the point of necessarily including vast areas yet unaccounted for in the list of Chinatowns. Abbotsford, Surrey and so on have large Chinese and other Asian-ethnic populations, but they're not Chinatowns. There may be those who want or intend them to be, but they're not called Chinatowns. The sloppy extension of this term to mean modern-day immigrant-settlement concentrations is a-contextual for how this term is usually used in English; at least in North America, i.e. as used by non-Chinese that is. And if everywhere in BC that sold ginseng and Chinese herbs were included, you'd have to include Kitsilano and Yaletown and lots more, too.....the broadened usage of this term as expressed here smacks of cultural imperialism, as also was the case with the condemnation of the Irish on the Chinatown page.Skookum1 05:11, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

All of the above remains unanswered; the list of criteria is not appropriate for a regular list page; if something is not self-evident as to what it is and requires such defintion, it's not legitimate as a parameter for a talkpage, and this is not of List of criteria for declaring somewhere to be a Chinatown, even if it never was considered such before. Perhaps a better title for this article would be List of Chinese colonialist enclaves or List of Chinese cultural exclaves outside of China.....because what us usually meant by "Chinatown" in English is not a proper description for many entries on this list.Skookum1 (talk) 17:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Metrotown and Steveston from BC section

I took Metrotown out for reasons obvious to anybody who's from Vancouver who doesn't see things through Chinese businsss-promotional blinkers; teh arguments to include it would apply equally to Oakridge, Collingwood (41st&Joyce), Knight & Kingsway etc, even Broadway & Commercial. From what I could see, that section mostly existed to plug the Crystal Mall/Tower real estate development; which is an inconsequential part of the busienss/residential area around Metrotown, which is composed of three large shopping centres and dozens of towers of similar size and importance to Crystal Mall (which was racially-marketed only to Taiwanese - "white people not welcome" like other projects in Vancouver post-influx). On a different tack, although I adjusted the Steveeton section's wordings at first, upon looking at Steveston, British Columbia there's no mention of its (tiny) historical Chinatown (a handful of stores surrounding by cannery-worker tenements) and Steveston is well-known in BC as being Japanese historically; it's far more of a Japantown than a Chinatown, although I gather its inclusion here may be part of an agenda to market it to the burgeoning Chinese market/population in Richmond in order to sell condos and lease floorspace to "rebuild Steveston's Chinatown". It never had one to speak of, is the point; that it's heavily Chinese in population today doesn't make it any different from dozens of other areas in Greater Vancouver which have similar levels of Chinese population; Golden Village I took out previously because it's not a Chinatown, it's a downtown area, until very recently very mixed, which has been overtaken by businesses which primarily cater to Chinese customers, and nobody in Vancouver (not even Richmond's politicians) woudl refer to it as "Chinatown". The only Chinatown in Greater Vancouver is the one in Vancouver's Downtown Eastside; in fact the reason the name Golden Village iexists is partly because there was strong opposition from Richmond's non-Chinese population about renaming the No. 3 Road commercial area as "Chinatown". If it was nixed by city council, there's no reason for Wikipedia to decide it's something local residents and politicians decided it shouldn't be called; ditto with Metrotown (which another ethnic-first faction has tried to rename Koreatown).. New West had a Chinatown, Port Moody long ago had a Chinatown, but there are no other historic Chinatowns or modern ones, unless the paramters in that pretetious catch-all list at the head of this article are used to include all of Greater Vancouver; which indeed, does qualify if those list-criteria are applied. There are moer historical chinatows in BC - I saw the monument to Penticton's on my visit there in 2007, and Quesnel had one, and Kamloops, and other places. But Steveston wasn't one, and neither was/is Metrotown. Having Chinese stores and restaurants does not make a Chinatown; if that were the case, as noted, then Vancouver or Burnaby could equally be labelled Chinatowns, ditto Coquitlam Centre. but they're not Chinatowns, and neither are Golden Village, Metrotown or Steveston.Skookum1 (talk) 17:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

subclassification

I am uneasy about listing Fremont as a subset of Oakland (they're both large cities, about thirty miles apart). No comment on other regions, but how about breaking down California by counties? —Tamfang (talk) 00:59, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Only if that have bona fide Chinatowns, not just Chinese businesses.Skookum1 (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Hungary/Budapest removed

I read through the source provided, which was a GeoCities link and although the page is "chinatown.html" there is no actual description of a Chinatown, and a google turned up this study of Asian commercial presence in Budapest which even though title "Budapest - Chinatown" - says clear out that;

"When we consider the architectural presence of Far Eastern immigrants in Budapest, in a physical sense, what we first find is that there is no so-called Chinatown. What we have instead is a loose and irregular network, with various key points of concentration as its nodes (markets, shopping centres, major restaurants), whose visible built elements are the stages of the immigrants' most important activities, commerce and catering, as well as the facilities servicing these.

And also:

"We started with a major point of concentration, the Józsefváros market [in the Josefstadt district of Budapest], which is called the Four Tigers market in Chinese, and which is a major node of the Far Eastern migrant community. (Everyone knows the market, and it has an exceptionally large turnover, yet its architectural solutions are completely temporary and flexible.) We followed up this line by looking at other important units of Chinese commerce in the city. (Note that Hungarians do not distinguish between the various Far Eastern immigrants, and all markets and restaurants are "Chinese," even if they are owned by Vietnamese, Mongolians, etc.)

Maps are also provided showing the dispersal of Asian businesses throughout the city, with no clear "Chinatown" of any kind.Skookum1 (talk) 14:39, 27 October 2009 (UTC)

Europe Street

What on earth does a "Europe Street" somewhere in China have to do Chinatowns? --217.239.10.232 (talk) 13:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)