Talk:Hugo Schmeisser

Mess

This work is a mess... Obviously the translation software was not intended for leisurely reading. The hardest bit it determining appropriate tenses and fixing reverse word order. It's going to take a mammoth amount of sitting and fiddling. LincolnDouglas 05:19, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

I've finished rewriting the article.

I haven't removed the copyedit tag because I'd like for someone else to read over it first and concur that it's good enough. Going from broken english to working english sometimes makes it hard to tell how good the new version actually is. :)

I (and other german speakers) need to continue comparing this version with the German version to correct any translation mistakes.

I see some other edits that I can make, but I'm done with this article for today. :)

Fourthgeek 2:52, 26 May 2005 (CST)

Well I've gone ahead and continued my rewrites and added a little information. I think the article is about done. Would be nice to get someone else to sanctify the sweeping changes I've made over the last few weeks.

Fourthgeek 1:46, 5 June 2005 (CST)

I'm not sure but I think that "pieces" is a direct translation and in German means "individual units" as opposed to in english where it is more likely to be read as "component part". KL

Death date

In the article start the given date for Hugo Schmeisser's death is September 12 of 1953, but at the After WWII section the given date of his death is December 9 of 1953. Each one of this is the correct date? -- Get_It 18:43, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

This appears to be an error arising from US date writing = month/day/year and the rest of the world = Day/month/year- thus 12-09-1953 and 09-12-1953 become confused, if the original source for the date is US its likely to be month first date second.

The de:Hugo Schmeisser (German Wikipedia) article consistently gives the September date: ,,Hugo Schmeisser starb am 12. September 1953." I've updated this article appropriately. Kiore (talk) 02:34, 7 June 2009 (UTC)

Red Army?

Quote:

By August 1945, the Red Army had created 50 StG44s from existing assembly parts, and had begun inspecting their design.

---

Now that makes no sense at all, god. Not that they captured great majority of the 500 000 manufactured, they actually had to CREATE 50 of them? Something just doesnt add-up, either its total BS, or somebody is mistaken about the whole weapon, perhaps it was Stg45? But of those im not sure that parts were ever made to assemble that many weapons (more like for 10), anyways some facts checking and rewriting needed here!

It does make some sense in the historic context. Thuringia saw the US troops conquering, as being west of the river Elbe where the American and Soviet troops were to rendezvous. These areas, however, were earmarked for withdrawal and exchange for the 3 western sectors of Berlin which had been conquered by the Soviets, who withdrew on 1st July 1945. So, the Americans and British conquered, then checked over all war production and interrogated Schmeisser. They might have made sure or tried to, to destroy all weapons production that endangered them. When the Soviets then came in they looked at what they found and put weapons together, probably not knowing if all parts were there. At some stage, the 'dismantling program' also kicked in. It was to reduce German industrial capacity significantly. They did go around the factories, dismantled equipment and took it away. My parents were in Saxony at the time which came under the same statutes as Thuringia. 2001:8003:A070:7F00:98EF:28AC:8EA6:7913 (talk) 04:48, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

Cheers. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.204.152 (talk) 02:56, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

"Beyond Mikhail Kalashnikov's 2009 admission that Schmeisser "helped" design the famous AK-47, which strongly resembles Schmeisser's StG44, little is known of his life during this period, until 1952 when he and other German specialists returned home to Germany."

Please provide a confirmation on this accusation, and that Hugo at all stayed in USSR. I have not heard Mikhail say this anywhere. I think this is total nonsense to make the Russians look stupid. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.233.163.7 (talk) 07:44, 22 July 2009 (UTC)

Max Popenker (surely you know who he is) said me once that according to his information, in Izhevsk Schmeisser was mostly dealing with production cycle establishment, not AK construction. --ElComandanteChe (talk) 10:13, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Besides the whole issue of the AK-47 operating nothing like the STG-44 (The AK-47 being closer to an M1 Garand then the PTRS/SKS like STG-44). A recent book on the AK-47 did mention Kalashnikov working with another Russian engineer on the design recently though, so perhaps someone got their wires crossed and though they meant Hugo Schmeisser. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.186.172.62 (talk) 17:14, 30 November 2010 (UTC)

AK47 ?

If Hugo Schmeisser worked in Russia from 1946 ,then he can have had little to do with the DESIGN of the AK47 because that was pretty well established by then and significantly different to the MP44/Stg44 . Collector Grade Publications " Kalashnikov , The Arms And The Man " suggests that Schmeissers' work was with sheet metal production techniques as used with the later AKM .(SM527RR (talk) 04:10, 16 December 2010 (UTC))

The USSR was very secretive with early development of the AK-47 and often foreigners were not allowed to take part in secret projects. Somebody should remove the part that he worked on the development of the ak-47 because there is no verifiable citation and the claim is dubious at best. Schmeisser apparently spent of his time perfecting soviet designs that where already in circulation hence the suspicion that he worked on the AKM.

-I removed this sentence. --Daniel Helmut (talk) 00:22, 11 January 2019 (UTC)

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Hugo Schmeisser AK47 claim

Ok. This is getting really ridiculous. This nonsense has gone on for years. Somebody just keeps inserting the false claim that Hugo had a hand in designing the AK-47. The funny thing is that they have both this article that refutes the claims that Hugo worked on the AK, as well as having the contradicting "sources" in this wiki article. It's like people here pick and choose "yeah I like what they wrote about him here, but we're gonna exclude that other stuff and make the claim that he worked on the AK-47". Now I don't have much authority on Wikipedia, but I'm hopping someone with authority can come over here and clean up this mess. Mikhail Kalashnikov himself said that there were no Germans helping him with the design of the AK-47, like falsely stated on several internet websites(like this one and many others). This article has focused on exactly this topic of Hugo Schmeisser and what he did in the Soviet Union by looking into Soviet documents, and NONE of them mention that Hugo worked on AK-47.

Please, just stop with these fictitious claims. Because this has gotten really tiring over the years and insulting towards Mikhail and Russian gun designers involved. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.225.237.107 (talk) 04:11, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

Buy a new book, Kalashnikov admitted it in 2009. Here are some reliable, verifiable published sources:

1. The AK-47: Kalashnikov-series assault rifles by Gordon L Rottman - 2012:"Much of the design work on the Haenel model was by Hugo Schmeisser, who later worked on the AK-47 as forced labor."
2. MP 38 and MP 40 Submachine Guns by Alejandro de Quesada - 2014: "Hugo Schmeisser and his brother Hans were interrogated for weeks by teams of weapons experts working for the ... Beyond Kalashnikov's 2009 admission that Schmeisser 'helped' design the famous AK-47"
3. American Rifle: A Biography by Alexander Rose - 2008:"Schmeisser would go on to work in Kalashnikov's design-engineering department, returning to Germany in 1952. The debt the AK-47 owes to Schmeisser's StG44 is an obvious one — it even looks like it"

I think those books are more credible than some sketchy websites.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 21:23, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

It's funny how fast you were able to revert back to your version. I started this thread almost a week ago and had no response. But as soon as I made a change in the article, you changed it back in less than an hour. Isn't that interesting?

If you want to be taken seriously create an acct. I usually ignore ips until they vandalize articles by removing reliably sourced information.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:52, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

I don't even know where to begin. The "sketchy websites" that you are referring to is a website copy of a Russian magazine article that was published back in November of 2009 after the so called admission from Mr. Kalashnikov. The PDF was provided next to the website link: here it is again if you missed it. The author, Ilya Shaidurov, is looking through soviet documents in hopes of finding anything that relates to Hugo Schmeisser and AK-47, and at the end of the article there is a a photocopy of a Soviet Document where you can see Schmeisser's evaluation: "during his stay[in Izhevsk], he has not contributed to anything." and that "he does not know about the secret projects of the factory". The articles goes through what he and other Germans did in the Soviet Union.

This is the English Wikipedia, not Russian.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Now, as far as the claim that Mikhail Kalashnikov himself would have admitted help from Hugo Schmeisser or other Germans, I have not been able to find one reliable sources to support that claim. And in the age of smartphones, cameras and recording devices, one would think that someone would record him say that, but I haven't seen or heard any of it. The only thing I can remember is reading a life.ru article back in 2009, but that was removed from the site(I wonder why).

Well, I have one and it's posted above with the quote, but here's some links to help you if you can't stand the books I listed:

1. Here's one
2. Here's TheFirearm Blog's take
3. Translation of Russkie docs
4. from Engineering and Technology Magazine, vol 9, issue 7.--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

And while you have removed the link to the "sketchy websites" as a source, you still left the claim that there were 16 Germans taken to soviet union, and Schmeisser's time in Izhevsk. Should we remove those claims as well, or maybe, you know... add some sources? --81.225.237.107 (talk) 17:37, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Add some sources if you want, just make sure they're not links to malware sites infected with internet AIDS--Mike - Μολὼν λαβέ 17:50, 13 August 2014 (UTC)

Ridiculous Claim removed

I removed the claim that Schmeisser himself worked on the Ak47 because the sources are very weak. Gordon L. Rottman s book The AK-47: Kalashnikov-series assault rifles is known to be full of mistakes like the claim that the MP44 is an improved version of the MP43 instead they are the exact same weapon with different designations. This book is commonly known to be bad.

For the other sources. They are not about the Ak-47 they talk it additionally. In contrast the big books about Ak47 and Stg.44 did not mention such a think. If you study Schmeissers history you will now, that he was employed on sheet metal production, were he did not cooperate very well than fell sick and get back to Germany.

But there is no point in proving a negative claim, this is not how history is working at all. --Daniel Helmut (talk) 22:51, 20 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion

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• Hugo Schmeisser Portrait.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:51, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

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• Hugo Schmeisser with a MP28.jpg

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