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This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record.
The result of the debate was delete. ugen64 04:08, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nation of Islam and alleged anti-Semitism

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POV fork of Nation of Islam and anti-Semitism. Jayjg (talk) 19:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)

  • Delete. Jayjg (talk) 19:37, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    • Isn't "alleged" the proper terminology for a title, especially when there is no consensus for such a thing? Or are you saying there are POV problems with the content inside the alleged version? If Nation of Islam and anti-Semitism's content is good it should be renamed to Nation of Islam and alleged anti-Semitism - zen master T 19:42, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
      • As has been pointed out in a number of places, including the wikien-l list, the name doesn't follow Wikipedia naming conventions. We don't have articles about "Alleged Islamophobia" or "Alleged homophobia" etc. Instead, the article title is declarative, and the article itself discusses the pros and cons of the concept. Jayjg (talk) 20:28, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
        • That is an illogical argument, all the examples you cite are generic articles about just the controversial subject specifically, the title to the other article in question is *specifically* stating that the nation of islam is totally anti-Semitic, very different than a generic article on a controversial subject like "homophobia". If someone created an article say George W. Bush and homophobia how long would that title last? How about U.S. Government and Islamophobia? Stating, or even implying in a title, that some organization or somebody is definitely a controversial thing is a very dangerous policy for an encyclopedia. zen master T 21:03, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
          • The title makes no claim that NOI is anti-Semitic, it merely presents the discussion. The article itself is where the pros and cons are listed. Please do not assume a title is POV based on your disagreement with the contents of the article itself. Jayjg (talk) 23:53, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
            • Alleged is better and more importantly neutral. zen master T 01:43, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
              • Feel free to continue to assert your POV on the matter; in the meanwhile, I'll stick with Wikipedia policy and convention. Jayjg (talk) 01:51, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. I'd agree with you, Zen master, if the view that the NOI is anti-Semitic were a tiny-minority or disreputable one, but it seems to be the mainstream view. SlimVirgin (talk) 21:31, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
    • The article is woefully insufficient to claim an overwhelming majority of evidence proves what you are saying it does, if there isn't 100% consensus for something then declaring in a title that someone or some organization is anti-Semitic is very dangerous. Certainly the point that criticisms of the government of Israel are often construed as anti-Semitism is a good one (because then at least *some* of the "rhetoric" is not actually anti-Semitic which is an additional point against your "overwhelming mainstream view" belief). zen master T 01:43, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Redirect to "Nation of Islam and anti-Semitism." —Seselwa 01:37, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
    Well, it was a re-direct, but the author insisted on turning it back into a POV fork. I suspect only a deletion will be enough to get the message across. Jayjg (talk) 01:52, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete, POV fork. Megan1967 06:17, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Keep. NPOV fork title wise, but content needs POV clean up. zen master T 06:42, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Redirect "Nation of Islam and anti-Semitism." to Nation of Islam and alleged anti-Semitism. --Irishpunktom\talk 11:50, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
    • You may well right about what the title should be, but title changes should be handled by moving, not copying and pasting, otherwise the history gets messed up. To do that, it is necessary to delete this. - Mustafaa 22:11, 5 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Comment: Versions of this article have been nominated for deletion at least twice before. See Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nation of Islam anti-semitism and Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Nation of Islam anti-semitism vote 2. Please review those and the article's Talk page.
  • As in the prior votes, I again argue that the content of this article presents more evidence about the beliefs and statements of Louis Farrakhan than about the attitudes of the organization, the Nation of Islam. An individual can be anti-semitic. I have trouble with the concept that any large organization can be so easily characterized. The contents of this article (both titles) should be distributed to the articles about the leaders making these statements. The left-over section (that a few other organizations have tarred the NOI with this accusation) should be merged back into the main NOI article. Rossami (talk) 05:45, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. Agree with Jayjg about the term "alleged" in the title. Wikipedia convention has declarative titles, and discusses the pros and cons of concepts in the articles. The declarative version already exists, and this is just a POV fork. --MPerel( talk | contrib) 22:42, Apr 7, 2005 (UTC)
  • Delete. POV fork. --Viriditas | Talk 21:52, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
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