Talk:Auxiliary Units

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I first heard about this on "Hitler's Britain" the other day. Were there 5000 units, or 5000 individuals? Mintguy (T) 15:01, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Post WWII

There were similar organisations to the Auxiliary Units in Europe during the Cold War, most notable Operation Gladio in Italy. Has there ever been any suggestion of anything in the UK? All that I have ever seen is that there was some planning for a possible Soviet capture of the Northern or Western Isles but that seemed to be only a plan and use regular / TA forces (though I have seen what looks like a AU hide in a Western Isles cemetery). --jmb 11:30, 24 June 2006

Assassination

Approximately 5000 units were formed, consisting of Special Duty Sections, Signals and Operational Patrols. Auxiliary Unit members were vetted by a senior local police chief (who were allegedly, according to sealed orders given to the Operational Patrols to be opened only in case of invasion, to be assassinated to prevent the membership of the Auxiliary Units being revealed).

I can't remember any mention of the assassination of police chiefs in any of the books that I have read on AUs. With Britain In Mortal Danger is quite comprehensive and I am sure there was nothing in there - they do mention that they were prepared to assassinate people but not in those circumstances. I would be interested to see the source of this statement. --jmb 20:42, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

It was mentioned in a program aired on the U.S. PBS network a year or two ago, including an interview with someone who peeked at his open-only-in-case-of-invasion orders, and was shocked to find that killing the local police chief was on the list... AnonMoos (talk) 04:58, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

There was a UK TV programme that mentioned that but I think that it was more a statement that they would be prepared to kill local police if they thought that they threatened their security by cooperating with the Germans. More likely to be referring to a local PC (i.e. with local knowledge) than a "police chief". --jmb (talk) 08:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

No, that wasn't what was said on the program. Just now I did a little google searching, but can't seem to find a website for the program (the fact that I don't remember a specific program title doesn't help...). AnonMoos (talk) 12:57, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

OK, also going by what I can remember but tend to put more weight on books than TV programmes. I would recommend having a read at "With Britain In Mortal Danger", it tells a much wider story than came over in the TV programme that I saw. --jmb (talk) 15:14, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

It was mentioned in a program aired on the U.S. PBS network a year or two ago, including an interview with someone who peeked at his open-only-in-case-of-invasion orders, and was shocked to find that killing the local police chief was on the list...

This is correct, the documentary was also on UK TV back in the 1990s. I think it was either one of the BBC's Timewatch programmes or it may have been an unrelated documentary on Channel 4, anyway it was in the mid 90's IIRC.

The sealed orders specifically mentioned killing the local Police Officer responsible for the Auxiliary Units. This was to be done to remove completely any chance of him (who would be the only local person with any knowledge of the AUs existence) either revealing the existence voluntarily or (more likely) under torture.

Now I think of it, the programme may have been on what was-then TVS or Meridian and been presented by Peter Williams [1] - he's the one on the left. He made a lot of excellent documentaries for what was-then Southern Television and which later became TVS and Meridian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.253.120 (talk) 13:57, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

One of the documentary series he made was called Just Williams. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.4.57.101 (talk) 18:08, 24 December 2011 (UTC)

Model of silenced sniper rifle

Does anyone know what kind/model of silenced sniper rifle they were issued with? --Hydraton31 21:18, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't remember any mention of a silenced sniper rifle in John Warwicker's book. I just happen to be reading M R D Foot's book, SOE The Scientific Secrets and there is not mention of SOE having one. Their silenced weapons were pistols and the silenced sten, all intended for short range use I think. --jmb 22:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

You may be thinking of the de Lisle Carbine but whether that was developed-for or issued-to the AU's I'm not sure. I think Welrods were issued to SOE agents, but they were silenced pistols. Generally, the AU's got the pick of any weapons that were available, even those in short supply, so they could have had just about anything they requested. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.40.253.120 (talk) 14:07, 9 October 2009 (UTC)

The silenced rifle was .22 calibre from several manufacturers - usually manufactured by BSA, Winchester or Remington. They were told that they were for sniping at German officers and for picking off tracker dogs before they came too near, There is a downloadable pdf on the CART website under equipment.Bill Ashby (talk) 09:33, 6 April 2016 (UTC)

Auxunits

Is "Auxunit" an original name? I can't remember seeing it mentioned in any of the books that I have read. It sounds a modern term that someone has come up. --jmb (talk) 12:41, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

"Aux Units" as a term to refer to the organisation is used by the former Norfolk Intelligence Officer Nigel Oxenden in hs account, a kind of official history, he was asked to write up in May 1945 and published by the British Resistance Musuem. Aux Unit was also the term used to refer to the dumps or packs of explosive equipment provided for the stay behind forces, and this is also mentioned in Oxenden's text. - Matt Gibbs (89.195.132.248 (talk) 15:52, 17 November 2009 (UTC))

"Scallywagging", etc.

The Times claims in an article that "carrying out covert missions ⌈was⌉ known as 'scallywagging'". The article's headline (possibly written by an editor) actually uses the term 'scallywags' to describe members of the units, although the article itself only says they were known as 'Auxiliers'. None of these 3 terms is included in our article. Should they be?

Someone tried to use 'Scallywag' as the title of an article, although it now redirects to the US spelling (which seems to be mainly a US Civil War term). Maybe there should even be a Scallywag (disambiguation) page with a link too here? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Open4D (talk • contribs) 17:00, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

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Fighting in uniform???

I've heard that the whole purpose of the Home Guard was to act as a cover for the much more formidable auxies. Since if they operated behind German lines they would have been shot it seems unlikely they would want to be identified by wearing uniform though I suppose it might minimise reprisals against civilians. Is there any citation that they were to wear uniforms? Regards JRPG (talk) 22:26, 9 April 2016 (UTC)

The Home Guard had wide ranging duties and was intended seriously; cover for the auxiliary units was incidental. The equipment, training and leadership of the Home Guard varied widely and it is not appropriate to make direct comparisons between the Auxiliaries and the Home Guard: however formidable the auxiliaries may have been, the Home Guard were far more numerous. Many changes were made to the organisation Auxiliary Units during the war and they certainly were issued with uniforms and nominally assigned to Home Guard units. This allowed them to train without raising suspicions (the possible consequences of being caught as a suspected fifth columnist hardly bears thinking about) and at least gave the men the option of fighting in uniform and at least the possibility of passing themselves off regular guardsmen. Gaius Cornelius (talk) 01:28, 10 April 2016 (UTC)

The purpose of the Home Guard was to take over miscellaneousness guard duties at home thus freeing up other men and so allowing more regular troops to be employed in active roles.

Thus although important and valuable their job was, in the case of an invasion the Home Guard wouldn't be doing the bulk of the actual fighting to halt and then repel the enemy, regular troops would be employed for this, the mere existence of the Home Guard allowing more regular troops to be used for this express purpose rather than for guarding harbours, railway stations, factories, etc.

... .Britain is an island with fairly secure borders so short of an actual invasion or parachute landing there was very little likelihood of any Home Guard soldier ever having to fire his weapon at anything other than a paper target on a firing range.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.145.115.6 (talk) 09:21, 23 October 2018 (UTC)

There has been a considerable debate on the functions of the Auxiliaries; and how far they were distinct from the 'public' Home Guard. The latest work on the subject is Malcolm Atkin. "Fighting Nazi Occupation". Atkin's view is that the 'secret' Auxiliaries and the 'public' Home Guard were planned to operate in a sequence of phases; but essentially in a single planned series of actions against invading forces. The local Auxiliaries would be in Home Guard uniform, but would remain concealed in their operational bases until after the local 'public' Home Guard had been overwhelmed and captured; and the Germans were under the mistaken impression that all Home Guard volunteers had surrendered - and dropped their guard. Apparent false surrender would, of course, be contrary to the Geneva Conventions, but so would be most other things that the Auxiliaries were planned to do. TomHennell (talk) 16:45, 9 January 2019 (UTC)