Talk:American Girl

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/Archive 1

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 18 January 2022 and 10 May 2022. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Aed94 (article contribs).

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 12 May 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Comp102umb2021.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 14:02, 16 January 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Recent edits for unnecessary detail

I've spent some time recently on heavy edits on this page to remove extraneous detail and unconfirmed information or stuff not properly sourced. As pointed out previously, there shouldn't be so much detail stretching out what is essentially an overview article. Private collecting sites and Wikis like the one Nethilia has added can expand on the basic information offered in this overview article.

I keep taking out fannish subjective comments that describe dolls a "beautiful" and so forth. Also added additional links to collection resources. --Heidilaura

Agreeing that this article is quite similar to the info that the manufacturer (Mattel) puts out. If you peruse their website, the general tone of the doll info imparted is similar. Am removing a few unnecessary adjectives...i.e. "a conservative reporter". Normally, the phrase "a reporter" would do unless there is a special reason to mention "conservative, liberal," etc.Lindisfarnelibrary (talk) 11:12, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Editors, please make an effort to follow Wikipedia policy

Wikipedia is cost-free for you to edit, however this does not mean you can write anything you want. Wikipedia is owned by the Wikimedia Foundation, and you must follow their rules to use it.

There are many problems with this article, and with recent edits. A major one seems to be that people who have a financial interest in American Girl are editing it. This is called a conflict of interest WP:CONFLICT.

Also, the article anticipates things that have not happened, without providing citation. Wikipedia is not a crystal ball for discussion. Stick with the facts. WP:CRYSTALBALL. One of the three core policies is that information must be verifiable, but editors in this article are adding all kinds of information and speculation that cannot easily be checked WP:SOURCE.

Wikipedia is also not a place to indulge in personal speculation about what is good, bad, influenced by what, for what purpose. This is called Original Research. You must provide citations in reliable, independent, third-party publications for many statements. That DOES NOT mean the Mattel company -- not without a reference that can be checked.

I suggest editors spend time reading:

Here is an example from the article of text that cannot be used without citing a reliable, independent source (i.e., NOT Mattel): "A focus on family unity and hope tempers the contrast between Addy's dreams of freedom and the harsh realities of on-going prejudice."

Understand that Wikipedia is not a free advertising platform, and that editors will enforce policy. Piano non troppo (talk) 02:14, 18 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Removing Non-Discussion of Article

I have removed two edits to this page that were not a discussion of the article. Please note that Wikipedia is a project, not a messageboard; the discussion page is not to have casual discussion about American Girl products or characters, but to discuss improvements and edits to the American Girl article itself. --Nethilia (talk) 04:35, 29 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Controversies - Make article more objective

Notably, the NY theatre Actors Equity action against an American Girl theatre seems to be handled like a corporate press release. If you read the link below (footnote # 28 in this article) the writer claims that the actors were receiving very low wages for their work and that the management was stifling the majority actor vote for union membership. This basic claim should be mentioned (along with the corporate response). The actual article's link is in the article and is also repeated below:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/08/04/theater/04girl.html

Researchers need to get a fair summary of controversies...not the corporate view alone.Lindisfarnelibrary (talk) 11:44, 27 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

unreferenced material

The article has been cleaned up and a significant amount of unreferenced material removed. There has been a lot of additions recently, particularly by our younger editors. While all are welcome to edit, remember to cite reliable sources. Also, the extensive information on individual dolls, unreferenced or only referenced with primary sources from the company itself, is not appropriate for Wikipedia. There is a link in the external links section with an entry for an external wiki devoted to the topic. Detailed analysis of each doll would be welcomed there I'm sure.--RadioFan (talk) 04:25, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

While I do agree with most of your edits thus far, the only one I do not agree with is your removal of the original historical dolls. The fan info could be trimmed down, but, when it really comes down to it, those "girls" are what made the company and they deserve more than just a passing reference. --13² 06:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Historic dolls are appropriate to cover here, but not in minute detail and certainly not without some reliable, 3rd party sources.--RadioFan (talk) 00:44, 4 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

agplaythings.com

This website, while interesting, does not meet wikipedia guidelines for reliable sources as it is self published. While this may be an appropriate source for other wikis, it should not be used for Wikipedia. --RadioFan (talk) 04:54, 2 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

I agree. Unfortunately, this particular article is prone to spammy links. I've cleaned it up in the past but some have managed to squeak through. I have removed this particular link. --13² 06:13, 3 January 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Criticism section and NPOV

To be more in line with WP:NPOV, the "Criticism" section would probably be better renamed to "Reception" or similar, and expanded to include both positive and negative commentary, see also WP:CRIT. At a quick glance, at least one of the sources in the section appear to be used in a POV manner, [1] spends two pages basically lauding the ethnical portrayal of one of the characters, with a few lines of negative commentary on earlier dolls. Only the negative commentary is included in the article here. Siawase (talk) 18:51, 17 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

OK, it's been renamed to "Reception", but no positive commentary has been added, which almost makes it even worse, because now it looks like all the reception to American Girl has been negative. Obviously, this isn't true, but I'm not a very experienced Wikipedian, so I don't feel adequate to add some. I hope this comes to someone else's attention, however... StoryMakerEchidna (talk) 23:36, 18 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

There is positive reception in the article outside of that section though, the Oppenheim Toy Portfolio Award is mentioned in the lead, and the bulk of the prose spells out how the doll lines have been expanded, numerous stores opened, and spinoff products released, all of which imply that the reception in the market place has been positive. The article as a whole is in better shape WP:NPOV wise than the reception section in itself is.

It would be fairly easy to improve the reception section. You can use the sources already in place there, and include some positive quotes from them, no special skills needed. I'd be happy to give advice if you're unsure how to go about it. Siawase (talk) 03:43, 3 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Inaccuracy

The article states that originally there were three dolls: Samantha, Kirsten, and Molly. - Felicity was also one of the original dolls and, early on, probably the most popular. There were even connections with and events at Colonial Williamsburg. - Shortly after, the article says when Felicity was discontinued - but she was definitely one of the originals, perhaps even before Molly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.42.32 (talk) 12:30, 6 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Incorrect, there were only three dolls originally (1986). Felicity was launched at five years later in 1991. Joyfullkitten (talk)

where's Saige?

where's the new GOTY for 2013? All the AG fans are buzzing about her, yet, Wikipedia just dosent want to be involved in one of the greatest puzzles of the year for doll lovers everywhere! guess everyone will just have to endlessly search for a trusty blog. P.S. I have a pic of Saige on my blog that I copied from dolldiaries.com. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.46.248.164 (talk) 23:12, 30 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Well, even with the apparent leaks we can't just vouch on what we gathered up so far. An official statement from American Girl or any other reliable third-party sources is needed before we can add Saige up. Blake Gripling (talk) 00:40, 31 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Do I sound like I care? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.46.248.164 (talk) 22:06, 3 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry, but that's what the policy says. Blake Gripling (talk) 01:12, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This article shouldn't list individual dolls, period. Wikipedia articles are encyclopedic overviews of topics for general audiences, not exhaustive collectors guides for fans. If you look at the external links in this article there's a link to http://americangirl.wikia.com/wiki/American_Girl_Dolls_Wiki which is a dedicated wiki created by and for fans where individual releases can be listed. Siawase (talk) 12:15, 4 November 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What about the books?

"American Girl is a line of dolls, books, and accessories." Yet you have nothing to say about the books. If I want to know what the characters associated with different historical periods are, do you have an article about that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.174.116.10 (talk) 16:57, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The "Dolls and accessories" section includes a broad overview of the books. As discussed above, going into detail on each doll/character is outside of the scope of a broad overview article like this one. I'd suggest seeking out fansites ( http://americangirl.wikia.com ) or material from the company to find that level of detailed information. Siawase (talk) 17:54, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of Dolls

I don't understand why lists of AMerican Girl dolls can't be shown on wikipedia. I see nothing in WP:NOT to contradict this. In fact, there are many such lists for other collections such as "List of Beanie Babies". Are we going to strike that list from wikipedia too?Dr who1975 (talk) 20:45, 20 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Lists of names of dolls fall under the Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information part of WP:NOT because they convey nothing of substance to general audiences. You might as well say "each doll has an individual name" and it would convey the exact same substance as the list does. As for List of Beanie Babies, WP:OTHERSTUFF. Siawase (talk) 10:50, 22 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Prose tags were added to the lists now, which are likely to eventually result in something similar to this 2010 version of this article, or even this 2008 version. I would suggest that if we are to have a list of individual American Girl dolls on Wikipedia, we instead use one of the old pre-existing prose versions and spin out a separate List of American Girl characters, where the material won't create the WP:UNDUE issues it has repeatedly come to do in this article. Siawase (talk) 07:07, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Exactly. A brief overview of the characters' personalities and some events from the books would help, as it was done on several other character lists with few or no issues. Of course, going into detail would be more of a job for the AG Wikia. Blake Gripling (talk) 07:15, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

It is preferable to have overviews rather than just a plain list of names, since that would actually be substantive information for those not already familiar with the subject. The problem is that creating brief overviews within this article would be an open invitation to enthusiasts to expand on that material. And unless regular editors are willing to constantly revert and delete their additions, we will eventually be back where we were three years or five years ago. This is why I suggest creating a separate list right away, and just save everyone the time. Siawase (talk) 09:23, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, I get your drift with that. It would be an instant bait for the kiddies to add fluff to the article, when the intent is to mostly make an overview about the dolls. Blake Gripling (talk) 11:11, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

And with that in mind, I changed the prose tags over to split tags. Let's see if there are any other editors who want to weigh in too. Siawase (talk) 11:24, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How's this for a start? I could've updated the Historicals list to include the recently-introduced characters, but for now that'll do. Blake Gripling (talk) 13:32, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Looks like a good start to me. I'm sure editors will come around to filling out whatever is missing from the lists. You copied it from the 2010 version, right? Siawase (talk) 15:39, 5 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yep. Might use a little more work, but it looks fine so far. Blake Gripling (talk) 00:45, 7 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I added talk page notices to both pages, for attribution per WP:SPLIT. Siawase (talk) 14:40, 13 May 2013 (UTC)[reply]

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Extensive Detail?

Is anyone else noticing the lack of citations for the amount of details here? We should try to find sources that support all of this detail, or we should try removing some of it. BBFanToys (talk) 13:05, 10 June 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Girls chat

Chat 37.111.215.159 (talk) 13:43, 3 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Huh?LordApofisu (talk) 04:50, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

He must've mistaken this for a possible venue to date with American women. Perhaps disturbingly enough, I recall seeing random African or South Asian men mistakenly barging into the American Girl Facebook page asking for a date or two, not realising that the fan page is referring to a line of children's toys! Blake Gripling (talk) 10:06, 25 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: Writing for Wikipedia

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 17 January 2023 and 12 May 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kquituisaca (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by VLSG262 (talk) 00:05, 12 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Wiki Education assignment: ENGL 2730-05 - Children's Literature

This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2023 and 11 December 2023. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ENGL2730-YG (article contribs).

— Assignment last updated by ENGL2730-YG (talk) 19:59, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Student Assignment: proposed changes to this page

I am planning to make changes to this article soon. My edits will primarily be focused on the American Girl doll books. I first plan on reorganizing the page to include a section about the books, as that is a product line not currently mentioned; there is no mention of the different types of books offered and different age ranges met. I also plan on making changes mostly in the reception section and utilizing peer reviewed articles to add in discussion about the reception of American Girl dolls, specifically about their stories and narratives. There are many critiques of each doll's story in terms of feminism, race, and class which are not discussed currently but are however notable. Please see my annotated bibliography in the bibliography sandbox on the Wikipedia dashboard. ENGL2730-YG (talk) 23:06, 20 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]