User talk:Deák

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Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 18:03, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Welcome, Deak! I suggest you talk to Muriel Gottrop, a longtime writer here (and a very good one) who is focusing mostly on the Portuguese edition currently. I think she may be able to help with some of your questions, and almost certainly is fluent in Portuguese, if that is of any help to you. Good luck and have fun! Jwrosenzweig 23:03, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Wiki: Babel?

Thank you for welcome message

Would like to compliment someone for this (Wikipedia) initiative (who?)!

I consider contributing also for the Portuguese edition. But have serious doubts:

-the entries do not seem to bear even a resemblance in e.g, English and Po. Is not this terrible duplication (/multiplication) of efforts?

I understand a language is a culture is a world; still...

Do you have any info (I missed) or suggestion? Yours

Csaba Deák 23:00, 2004 Aug 4 (UTC)

I agree, I think it is foolish to have distinct articles between the the langueages, but the problem is we haven't enough multilingual users with the interest to merge and standardize them. Perhaps you can help? The best is to translate good information from one to the other, back and forth, IMO. Thank you for your kind thoughts, Sam [Spade] 23:25, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We do have a project here at Wikipedia:Translation into English that attempts to translate articles from other language Wikipedias. Perhaps you would consider both volunteering to translate articles into English here from your native tongue, and also starting a similar project at the Portuguese Wikipedia? This is only a suggestion. I hope it is helpful. Thanks for your interest in the site, and your desire to contribute -- Jwrosenzweig 23:30, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for welcome msg and suggestion. I do plan making occasional intercourse between the two langages, although in a non-sistematic/regular way, as told in more detail in my answer to Sam below. Deák 23:19, 2004 Aug 5 (UTC)

In some cases articles in the Esperanto Wikipedia seem to have been translated from English articles, or articles in English were translated from Esperanto (e.g. Sidney S. Culbert). In many cases, though, the articles were independently written by people not aware of the other article, not having time to translate the whole of it, or not considering the whole text relevant to the interests of the other language community (e.g. I don't think any of A. E. van Vogt's works have been translated into Esperanto, so I did not think it necessary to translate the whole article about him). I suppose the same situations apply to all other language-pairs. I agree that it's a good thing to check the articles in any other languages you can read and use them as sources to improve the articles in any languages you can write competently. --Jim Henry 20:48, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Hi Sam, since you did not answer my first Q I assume it is yourself who is to be congratulated for Wikipedia. It is a stupendous idea, which created something like a 'collective brain'. Regardless of how exactly it will work in its maturity, it is certainly worth finding out. Personally I see two major problems: the accomodation of actual conflicts, which you already addressed, and dealing with the multiplicity of languages. A minor problem is that the permanent state of flux of everything contained in Wiki makes difficult (impossible?) its use as a reference, both for external and internal (through internal links) use, except with a date/time tag ('according to Wiki.Entry, on Y/M/D,...').

On the 'languages problem' (Babel) this is what I came to think so far. It is not only a question of having (enough) people to do translation. The various languages are actually verious worlds (that's what I meant with "a language is a culture is a world" above). Maybe an entry like 'Pi' or 'Elton John' is virtually unproblematic (although in the latter case interest in it and therefore level of detail required may vary greatly, as between England and China, for example). But 'local' differences are bound to be more pronounced as the entry touches closer upon specific countries' history, culture, folklore. Thus maybe what we can do is something like what happens really among the cultures: each has its own life, but this includes getting into contact with other cultures at various levels of frequency, intensity and hierarchy. This would translate into multintongued wiki-ers picking occasionally material from one language and transpose (the relevant bit of) it into the other, whether in the form of a new entry or revision of an existing one. But it is only a sort of inoculation; the effect of which will spread further in its new context independently of the evolution of the same info in its original milieu. Until a new (unplannable) contact is made ... Anyway, my plan as of now is to do precisely this: make occasional forays from En to Pt and vice-versa.

I promise not to come back with such long elocubrations in the future. --Csaba Deák 23:19, 2004 Aug 5 (UTC)

Quite alright, you can feel free to say as much as often as you like :). I am not the site founder, simply a volunteer here, if I misunderstand correctly. The site founder is User:Jimbo Wales, and he is generally too busy for greeting people ;) As far as your thoughts I generally agree, but personally would like more uniformity and less ethnocentrism. Glad to hear you are interested in putting your multilingual abilities to good use. Cheers, Sam [Spade] 23:05, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I agree

I think it is foolish to have distinct articles between the the langueages, but the problem is we haven't enough multilingual users with the interest to merge and standardize them. Perhaps you can help? The best is to translate good information from one to the other, back and forth, IMO. Thank you for your kind thoughts, Sam [Spade] 23:25, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

We do have a project here at Wikipedia:Translation into English that attempts to translate articles from other language Wikipedias. Perhaps you would consider both volunteering to translate articles into English here from your native tongue, and also starting a similar project at the Portuguese Wikipedia? This is only a suggestion. I hope it is helpful. Thanks for your interest in the site, and your desire to contribute -- Jwrosenzweig 23:30, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Lets talk @ User_talk:Sam_Spade#Wiki:_Babel.3F. I have copied some from your talk page, I hope it helps. Sam [Spade] 03:28, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)