Talk:Jesse James

Siblings; Robert Sallee James birthplace

I am Mariano Rajoy Jesse Woodson James had another full sibling: Robert R. James, who died in infancy in 1845. Robert is included in the list of children at Zerelda James. Can someone make the edit, as the omission could be confusing for family researchers?

Also, this statement under "Museums" is flatly incorrect: "The Jesse James Tavern is in his father's birthplace in Asdee, County Kerry, Ireland, from which his father immigrated to the US in the 1840s as a young man." Jesse Woodson James' father, Robert Sallee James, was born in Logan County, Kentucky in 1818, which is well-established fact. See Robert S. James for further information. Tnhybrid (talk) 21:38, 5 September 2014 (UTC)

Age of Death

Can somebody who knows math correct his age of death from 34 to 35, (1882 - 1847 = 35). Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.107.255.110 (talk) 10:42, 13 July 2010 (UTC)

  April 3, 1882 - September 5, 1847 = 34 years, 6 months, 28 days, or thereabouts, I make it.

Oojamaflip2 (talk) 13:58, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

The way you wrote that is confusing. I thought it was wrong at first. But you're correct. He hadn't reached his 35th birthday when he died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.69.100.113 (talk) 02:52, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

This is a us secret jesse and his gang wasnt killed they took a deal to disappear they lived out there days in browns park colorado outside of maybell. Billy the kid babysat my grandmother in old age. Royboym8 (talk) 13:43, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Ancestry

WELSH ANCESTRY? The Surname James is not of Welsh it is English origin. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.184.225.157 (talk) 19:04, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

He’s my great great great great great grandfather 2603:8090:101:1C58:C031:6204:2AD2:56D2 (talk) 01:27, 19 March 2023 (UTC)

Another problem: apparent contradiction between this from the "Museums" subsection: "The Jesse James Tavern is in his father's birthplace in Asdee, County Kerry, Ireland, from where his father immigrated to the US in the 1840s as a young man.[66]"

and this from Robert S. James' own article: "Robert Sallee James was born in Logan County, Kentucky. He was the son of John M. James and Mary G. Poor James. His ancestor John James came to America from Pembrokeshire, Wales in the mid 1600s."

Can anyone sort this out? Oojamaflip2 (talk) 13:32, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Someone needs to find this book: [1] Dougweller (talk) 12:56, 7 November 2010 (UTC)

According to Genealogy.com James is an English name and his ancestor "William4 James was born in England 1754. William died 1805 in Goochland, Virginia, USA, at 51 years of age" Not only was he not Welsh, he was definitely not Irish either-referring to the Museums subsection.97.87.140.69 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 07:56, 15 February 2011 (UTC).

The claim that Jesse's father was from Kerry looks like just a tall tale told to tourists for cheap publicity for a bar in Kerry. There is no good evidence to support it. See below.

Aberdeen01 (talk) 08:35, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Glendale robbery, copying comments from article to here

I've removed the following commentary from the article: "(i'm not sure why this has changed from Independence, MO to St. Louis County. http://www.davidrumsey.com/luna/servlet/detail/RUMSEY~8~1~24476~900020:Chicago-&-Alton-Railroad---No-chang shows a map with a listing of the depots along the Chicago-Alton Railroad. The article in reference 41 also states that the robery occured not more than 12 miles from Kansas City. The area known as Glendale then was later changed to Selsa. http://www.chicagoalton1879depot.org/history.html.) (here is a book reference about Glendale http://books.google.com/books?id=ntxuxXN7JJYC&pg=PA83&lpg=PA83&dq=jesse+james+glendale+station&source=bl&ots=jZaILjjs15&sig=JGNyHQp_HyXyYExsgFo0HE_RnUY&hl=en&ei=Ot8GTbGvIdGLnQfHxpnlDQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CB4Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=jesse%20james%20glendale%20station&f=false) (to go even further, here http://www.glendalemo.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=category&layout=blog&id=10&Itemid=8 is a history of the Glendale, MO near St. Louis where it states this city was named after a station on the Missouri Pacific Railroad) "

Anyone want to use this in the article in some fashion? The Historical Atlas book can probably be used. Dougweller (talk) 07:41, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Why is he a national hero?

From the original article:

"Jesse and his brother Frank James were Confederate guerrillas during the Civil War. They were accused of participating in atrocities committed against Union soldiers. After the war, as members of one gang or another, they robbed banks, stagecoaches and trains. Despite popular portrayals of James as a kind of Robin Hood, robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, there is no evidence that he and his gang used their robbery gains for anyone but themselves.[2]"

The above needs to be corrected immediately in the article--it is opinion not fact. The source cited is actually a reprint by the Seattle Times of an op-ed featured in the Washington Post. The author of the editorial made the final statement quoted here, but failed to cite sources for that back up the claim that they kept all of the money themselves.

The is plenty of modern evidence that suggests Jesse and Frank James were content to go back to farming their family homestead after the defeat in the Civil War and may have never formed an "outlaw gang" were it not for the graft, corruption, and yes mnurder being perpetuated by Pinkerton agents to acquire land for the westward expansion of the Illinois railroad lines.

They were protecting our most foundational freedom as Americans: the private property of themselves and their neighbors being stolen by the U.S. government and the greedy corporations controlling the government. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.49.23.69 (talk) 12:19, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

Never heard that particular libel before. So James is a hero to unreconstructed racists, and lefty anti-Americans. Quite a hitch up. I’ll pass. Pity they did not hang him, I would like a piece of the rope. 2601:647:6680:4450:9459:45D7:2D9A:A4F1 (talk) 02:53, 7 July 2024 (UTC) Could any American please explain to me why a murderer who killed innocent and unarmed people is celebrated as a national hero in the U.S.? That's like celebrating the Zodiac killer or Ted Bundy. The article unfortunately doesn't pick this topic up. -- Orthographicus (talk) 11:57, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

It is probably hard for someone who isn't American to understand the impact the Civil War had and still has on the U.S. culture. Depending on which side your sympathies lie, someone may be considered either a hero or a villain. Wschart (talk) 19:11, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

There is evidence that Jesse James and his gang used their robbery gains to help the poor in the lean years after the Civil War. The following needs changed, "Despite popular portrayals of James as a kind of Robin Hood, robbing from the rich and giving to the poor, there is no evidence that he and his gang used their robbery gains for anyone but themselves." I know it is a quote from some book but according to eye witnesses, the last part of that statement is false. ref: Nevada Herald, Serving Vernon County, Missouri, Sunday, July 23, 1995, Vol. 103 No. 28, (page 1-2) (The occasion was unearthing Jesse James' grave site a second time to make sure Jesse James was indeed buried there. Alvin May stated his great-grandfather helped originally bury Jesse James. "According to Alvin May aged 79 (at the time), his great-grandfather, King Tabor, lived near the James farm near Kearney, May said Tabor and the James family were friends and neighbors. So close in fact that May said Jesse paid the mortgage on Tabor's house during the lean years following the Civil War." That sounds like solid evidence contrary to your article which states that their robbery gains were only for themselves. The legend is true. Jesse James did in fact rob from the rich and give to the poor. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RaiBennet (talk • contribs) 03:30, 5 July 2014 (UTC)

Per Rose M. Nolen's book "Hoecakes, Hambone, and All That Jazz; African American Traditions in Missouri", (pg 68) Jesse James donated money for the establishment of the black educational institution , Lincoln Institute. Today this institution is called Lincoln University, located in Jefferson City, Missouri. I find this an odd thing for a man who was depicted as a 'racist'. This act would not make Jesse James a national hero, but as an African American, I appreciate his effort. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.237.91.221 (talk) 07:44, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

I marvel at it too, but also at movies that glorify big heists. Some like him because he was 1> a Confederate 2> a rebel 3> a Robin Hood figure (probably false), or because 4> they hate banks 5> root for the little guy 6> think he had reformed 7> was killed in perhaps less than an honorable way (apparently the murderer of JJ's killer was let free and pardoned after 10 yrs by the governor after receiving petitions to do so) 8>"larger than life" --JimWae (talk) 08:28, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

He was a man of respect towards his beliefs. the war still lived in him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.53.195.203 (talk) 03:54, 6 November 2011 (UTC)

FOR ONE THING; Northerners were suppressed Southerners to the point of starvation,hangings and killings were common after the Civil War and Jesse,Frank and their gang attacked and robbed only Northern Banks,Railroads etc and only those and they were paying back Northerners for the atrocities going on then and during the war.They were not murderers and they just killed those doing atrocities to Southerners and if your not an Southerner then please do not comment on this. I have written something below on this ignorance by Yanks and Northerners and I am Craig Walters,my mom's mother was Mary Jane Cole before she married my grandfather and her great Auntie was Zerelda Cole,born on the Cole Manor Inn in Kentucky which is where my family from before migrating to Sherman,Texas and Missouri.Frank and Jesse are my Great Uncles and the Youngers are my cousin,so they are kin to me,so I am getting a bit tired of hearing they were that and this when this is not the facts and it is just NORTHERNERS painting and writing about them,when like it is said below,whoever wins wars or battles gets to write the history books! Were they fighting for the Southerners who were being repressed by the Northerners,all history and evidence point towards that and it is told Frank and Jesse had very little money left after each bank robberies and where did all that money go and the $60,000 for the first robbery. I can not speak for the other gang members,it is told Jesse and Frank gave money to Southerners and helped people out and people in Missouri and through out the South knew of this. I have learned through family members on my mom's side that Frank and Jesse did give to Southerners and they got back a place to hide out or food and water and place to stay,when they came through and this is also very well known,which I been told some of those stories by my grandmother(1906-1994).

Jesse had a bit of a temper is also known and Frank was more mild mannered,but still could have a temper at times and imagine what atrocities they saw against Southerners during the war and after,and the Northerners bombed their house they were born in,injuring their mother and killing their step-brother,in the Pinkertons who was employed by Northern banks and railroads.The facts and what was the real truth is forever is blurred by those ignorant and those who can not see the truth as it was,but see only their truths or what they believed happened during that time in history.I speak this as not being kin to Jesse,Frank and the Youngers,but as a historian who is University educated! ~C.M.Walters~

whoever wins wars gets to write the history books. Jesse James was a hero. he fought honorably and when the war was over he went home to nothing but people chasing him for nothing more than being on the side of a tragic war that did not win. only for being on the Confederate side was he and his family persecuted. his brother Frank wanted to be a school teacher, and no one would be able to chase their dreams. they were forced to rob out of necessity. survival is the motivation, but then the glamour probably set in afterwards like a rock star that starts out just wanting to make music but then gets a taste of the big life. Though they did not spend the money on travelling the world and living in a ritzy home. These were simple living folks that wanted nothing more than to live and let live, and like anyone else defended their right to do so. Pinkerton detectives would throw bombs in their home though they weren't there and on one occasion their mother was in the home and did not come out for fear of being shot. so Pinkerton detectives threw the bomb in the house and their mother lost her arm. i dont know about anyone else but if someone cause my mother to loose a limb i would hunt them down no matter where they tried to hide. here is a link to his page on find a grave. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=539 unfortunately people misused the add virtual flowers feature and so it was turned off by the site admins.

added by John Hussain — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.182.17.8 (talk) 02:50, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

People of many countries adopt criminals/outlaws as folk heroes, which James was. For those who mistakenly believed he was robbing on their behalf, they thought he was a Robin Hood. Others thought he continued to represent the Confederate guerrillas, but it looks mostly as if he robbed for himself and his gang. Folk heroes exist outside of facts.Parkwells (talk) 12:49, 30 December 2011 (UTC)

unbiased facts - he murdered people

              - he robbed not only banks and trains but, also passengers 
              - he practiced incense 
              - he terrorized the legal government and the proponents for that government(by definition, he was a terrorist and if held any other citizenship besides american, he would be detained in gitmo).  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.150.95.166 (talk) 11:11, 28 April 2012 (UTC) 

Death Date

It appears that the date of Jesse James' death is inaccurate (it says 1951 but I believe is was 1882.) I don't see how to edit this so I'm hoping that by mentioning it here someone can fix it.

Duncanad (talk) 01:46, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I fixed it. I don't know how they got that wrong. HotshotCleaner (talk) 02:00, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

it looks like Jdeer123 changed it. Maybe he can explain why. HotshotCleaner (talk) 02:03, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

I think that Jesse James' son, also named Jesse James, died in 1951. So maybe that is why... Duncanad (talk) 02:05, 29 October 2011 (UTC)

If your family wasn't here in Missouri at that time in the woods, I woudn't come here talkin' like that people. Just do a little more reading as Socatese would, and maybe you'll have differnet lookMensatop2 (talk) 04:16, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

PEOPLE TALK THIS WAY BECAUSE THEY ARE IGNORANT! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.241.215 (talk) 22:21, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Okay you have to also remember that the North was suppressing the South after the war,thus they were attacking only Northern banks and railroads and only those against those who were suppressing Southerners and many Southerners were starving. By the way this is Craig Walters and my mother's mother was Mary Jane Cole,and Zerelda was my grandmother's great Auntie so Jesse and Frank are my great uncles and the Youngers are my cousins. I am sick of hearing things about my great uncles that they were murderers and how about all those Northerners who murdered and hung Southerners after the war was after and many others died of starvation..the Northerners are the ones that did atrocities and it is always the winners of wars or battles that get the first and last say what is right or wrong!Jesse and Frank did atrocities against those already doing them against Southerners and it was payback for all the Northerners did..maybe not correct as TWO WRONGS DO NOT MAKE A RIGHT,but it was how it was and read your history and your see a second Civil War happen after the original one in Mississippi,Missouri and parts of the South from 1865-1872.There is a great book called REDEMPTION:THE LAST BATTLE OF THE CIVIL WAR by NICHOLAS LEMANN and it about this second Civil War or battles that took place..maybe an good explanation is an extension of the war! This book explains the continual atrocities done by Northerners to Southerrn folk and Please Read IT! C.M. WALTERS — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.248.241.215 (talk) 22:18, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

The death date is wrong the calvary made a deal from jesse and his gang to disappear and not cause trouble. He lived out the rest of his days west of maybell Colorado in browns Park. I wouldnt think it was true if there wasnt a family photo of my baby grandmother standing next to him. He was her baby sitter and favorite person on the ranch Royboym8 (talk) 13:53, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Edit request on 4 December 2011

hello, I've just become a bona fide member of weki and I am going to make a donation, first here, i live 6 miles from Gads Hill, we have a large sign telling about the 1st MO. train robbery taking place there by Jesse and four members of his gang on Jan.31 1874. It's in your Gads Hill info. about how the place got its name from Charles Dickens Hometown,but not here, please but us in along with the others because its just as famous, just overlooked, thank you.Mensatop2 (talk) 06:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Mensatop2 (talk) 06:39, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Please request a specific edit, as described in the template. Change the template back to answered=no when you do so--Jac16888 ^Talk 11:54, 4 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 13 December 2011

The line "He also faked his own death and was known as J.M James" in the first paragraph should be removed as it is more representative of a conspiracy theory than proven fact. The article itself notes that "none of James' biographers have accepted [such theories] as plausible. To include such info in the introduction, especially as a statement, is misleading. Writebeat (talk) 04:48, 13 December 2011 (UTC)

• -  Done - removed disputed content - no objections after ten days. - Youreallycan (talk) 23:27, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Booknotes link

I would like to add the following link to the External links section, but I noticed there is a note requesting that further links be discussed here. Comments?

http://www.booknotes.org/Watch/165238-1/Ted+Yeatman.aspx

KConWiki (talk) 16:52, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

Edit request on 21 January 2012

The caption below the picture of Jesse James's farm reads "Jesse James Farm in Kearney." I believe this should be changed to "Jesse James's Farm in Kearney."

CiaraMisaki (talk) 19:10, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

I realize that you believe that there is a grammatical error concerning possessives but the name Jesse James Farm is an official and recognized name used by the current museum as seen here. It isn't an error.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► 19:21, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 22 January 2012

Jesse James wax museum Address: North Service Rd W., Stanton, MO

  Directions: I-44 exit 230, southeast side. Phone: 573-927-5233

Rudy Turili claimed to have tracked down Jesee James in 1948 very much alive. After many years off collecting evidence of this mans idenity she opened this museum in 1964.Boomhaward (talk) 23:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Boomhaward (talk) 23:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Children

Jesse Woodson James and Zerelda Amanda Mimms had four children NOT two. mentioned under the picture at the top of the first page with an overview of him I can only find the names of Jesse Edwards James and Mary Susan James. The names of the other two children are Montgomery James and Gould James, they were twins and although they only lived a few days after child birth, I think they're names should be listed under his children, (in the section under the picture not just further down in the article), in respect for Jesse Woodson James and his family. The twins were born in 1878 and died in the same year. Dugan baby (talk) 21:27, 27 February 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 March 2012

The Museum section of the Jesse Woodson James article should have an additional entry. - The Jesse James Bank Museum on the square in Liberty, Missouri. - It is the site of the first daylight bank robbery in peacetime. I have been to it many times. The museum is managed by Clay County along with the James Farm Home and Museum outside of Kearney, Missouri. Please consider making this change (addition) to the article. Thank you. 69.242.154.243 (talk) 00:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

Done Thanks, Celestra (talk) 01:42, 12 March 2012 (UTC)

living descendents

Why is there no mention/discussion of his living descendents, especially Jesse James, who is (I believe) involved in the bike business, and shows up on various TV programs (eg, the one with the Teufels)? He's the spit and image of his predator -- uh, predecessor. WilliamSommerwerck (talk) 16:01, 30 April 2012 (UTC)

Do some research online and you'll find plenty of contention between those who have been established as descendants or relatives of the James brothers and the hordes of individuals claiming to be related to Frank and Jesse James without any substantial evidence. Jesse G. James has not been established to be a lineal descendant or relative removed of either Jesse or Frank James. He has failed to provide, despite invitations to do so from the James Preservation Trust, any genealogical record or DNA swab that would verify his claim to be related to the James brothers. Any number of people falsely claim or were erroneously informed by relatives that they are related to the James brothers, or had acquaintance with them or other celebrities, presidents, Pocahontas, passengers of the Titanic, etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.148.147.33 (talk) 18:28, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

Edit request on 8 August 2012

Possible addition to:

Rumors of survival

Neil Morris, in his recording of the song "Jesse James," relates that his grandfather maintained that the James Brothers frequently hid out on his farm in Baxter County, Arkansas. Morris' story places his grandfather and Frank James at the 1901 World Fair, where Frank told Morris' grandfather that Jesse was alive and that the red-haired man killed by the Ford Brothers was William C. Quantrill, who was similar in size and appearance to Jesse. The story is a terrific example of how local legend grew up around the brothers. ref: Sounds of the South, Disc 1, Track 6 (Jesse James), Atlantic Recording Corporation, 1993

Downfall of the gang

Northfield annually celebrates the victory of its citizens during its September Defeat of Jesse James Days festival. ref: http://www.djjd.org/ </ref>

Johnsoby1 (talk) 04:48, 8 August 2012 (UTC)

I'm not sure what should be changed and where? ^Jguy_Talk^Done 21:02, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 December 2012

please change Robert Ford to Robert Ford i.e. give a hyperlink 82.169.199.129 (talk) 00:18, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

The intro parapgraph already does this. RudolfRed (talk) 00:38, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 7 March 2013

I knew 5 CANADIAN members of the Jesse James Gang. There was Doc Boone AND his older wife, Earnest Brandt who has written a book on the Jesse James Gang and members, Joseph Branconnier originally a River Boat Gambler on the Missouri, and Earnest Gaudry who was the youngest member. These 5 people had escaped to Canada in the 1800's and dispersed from each other with the exception of Doc Boone who's wife stayed by his side to the end. They all ended up in what was once a large Wood Mill/Farming Town called Birch River Manitoba, Canada where by that time ALL were married. All had money. Doc Boone and his wife opened a Dr.'s Practice in a section of the town's Drugstore near the Hospital and lived in a huge but fancy log house on property not usually allowed purchase, yet he was able to. Joseph Branconnier married Audry Perilot from France and had one of the biggest horse and cattle ranches around at that time. Earnest Gaudry became the owner of a Pool Hall and married a relative of Louis Riel named Rose ( Last name: Nee:____unknown to me) Joseph Branconnier and Earnest Gaudry were 1st cousins. I never heard Earnest Brandt's wife's name but she passed away young and he seemed to hermitized himself in his unusually large fancy house and yards in Town. It turned out he had written a book of all their events with the James gang. I don't recall if he passed away or moved away. I know because I knew them all. I believe my Great Grand-Father Joseph Branconnier was the 1st to pass away after his 2nd marriage to Roselin Nee: Delorme from Louisiana who had 1st been married to his Daughter-In-Laws Father Peter Fiddler. He passed on in 194 at the age of 100. Last visit I had with Doc Boone was in 1972 though I do not recall his age at his time of death. Earnest Gaudry passed away in 1984 followed shortly by his wife Rose. I am not clear on his death age either. Earnest Brandt I last saw in 1976 when I went to his house selling Carnival Queen Tickets. I saw Mrs. Boone last in 1977. I only ever knew her as Mrs. Doc Boone. My late Mother's Mother and Father had a whole pile of photos, events, names, etc but I do not know which family member has them now. There are a lot more details but I am not the one to tell them. Earnest Brandt's book would be a wonderful resource to collaborate the information I know. Though I am unclear as to what he did before writing the book, I think it was his only one though I do not recall what the title of it was though I did have an original 1st copy which was in my Mother's possession when she passed away followed only 3 months after my Father. I believe my eldest Daughter may have burned it or is putting it in a 2013 garage sale. Norman Branconnier, Alice Connolly, and Anne Haggerty may have more information, details, writings, etc and happen to live very close, Norman Jr. in the Bowsman Manitoba, Canada. Rural Municipality same as Anne Haggerty. Alice Connolly lives in Swan River Manitoba. Canada. There age 2 others that have loads of materials on all of this but no one seems to know whee they are currently living though they are in Swan River Manitoba, Canada quite frequently.

There ARE books besides Earnest Brandt's containing the same names which may have actually been changed when or before they escaped into Canada. And a possibility that those names had been changed from Province to Province before all ended up in Birch River Manitoba, Canada. This is to let people know that Canadians had their roles in USA History whether good or bad as they are most all probably gone now. Any relatives remaining in the USA and Canada should neither be proud or ashamed of their heritage and I believe this deserves mention. StormyStars (talk) 23:18, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Personal experience or "someone told me so" are violations of Wikipedia's policy on original research. —KuyaBriBri^Talk 15:20, 8 March 2013 (UTC)

Huh?

What's this "Some recent scholars…" bit? It's crap like this that make scholars and historians not take Wikipedia seriously. Historians (not necessarily 100% perhaps) have always considered the James gang to be primarily a rebel outgrowth of the Civil War as well a continuation of the Bloody Kansas - Missouri Border War. In another weaselly section, someone claims it's not certain James took part in a robbery despite an eyewitness account. What's that all about? It's possible writers here are being swayed by James' publicist, apologist, romanticist, and pro-slavery, pro-separtist newspaperman John Edwards, the main reason James became a legend at all. --71.1.200.230 (talk) 22:51, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

Photo captions relating to 'Death' heading

The two photos suggest that James died at both locations. This is confusing and should be rewritten to reduce ambiguity. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.183.13.16 (talk) 16:30, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 February 2014

Within the 5.3.6 Television portion of Jesse James, a mention should be made of the 2/2/1973 episode of the Brady Bunch, titled "Bobby's Hero" which featured Jesse James. (source: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0531075/) 75.132.10.94 (talk) 22:58, 17 February 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. IMDb is not considered a RELIABLE SOURCE. — {{U|Technical 13}} ^{(t • e • c)} 03:12, 18 February 2014 (UTC)

Lede photo

I just created an article for a photographer named Carl Giers, and I'm trying to figure out if he took the photograph that appears in the lede. These two sites, [2] and [3], suggest the photograph was taken (in cabinet card format) by Giers' studio. This book [4] has a photograph of the James brothers and Fletch Taylor taken by Giers in the late 1860s, showing they were acquainted. Note that Giers died in 1877, so if he was the photographer, it would have been taken prior to that year (Giers' estate may have registered the copyright in 1882 due to James' notoriety and the photograph's frequent appearance in newspapers). Bms4880 (talk) 21:43, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Jesse's father from County Kerry, Ireland

From the research that I've done, it seems that there is lots of evidence backing up the statement that Jesse's father Robert was born in the US and on the male line he had English ancestry. The wikipedia page on Jesse's father contains the following:

Robert Sallee James was born near Big Whippoorwill Creek at Lickskillet, Kentucky.[2] He was the son of John M. James (1775-1827) and Mary "Polly" James (née Poor, 1790-1827).[3] His grandfather, William James (1754-1805), came to Goochland County, Virginia, from the village of King's Stanley in Gloucestershire, England, in the late 18th century.[4]

On the other hand if Robert was from County Kerry in Ireland, there would then be the question how did he end up with an English surname and why was he a Baptist? For the past few centuries Kerry has been fairly homogeneously Catholic with an Anglican minority. But I have not seen any evidence of a Baptist congregation there in the 19th century.

Clearly his surname and religion are not proof that he wasn't from Kerry, but it seems that the only evidence point to the claim that Robert was from Kerry comes from bar in Kerry called the Jesse James Tavern which tells tall tales to tourist for some cheap marketing.

Aberdeen01 (talk) 08:08, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

• In my view, County Kerry's novel claim should be mentioned in the article, but I think it's clear, based on the source used in the Robert James article (Steele, Philip W. "Jesse and Frank James: The Family History". Pelican Publishing, 1987, p. 27.), that Robert James was not actually born there. The claim should be treated as just that: a silly claim, that might still be interesting to readers of our encyclopedia. LHM^{ask me a question} 13:08, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

For me, if the owners of a pub in Kerry make an extraordinary claim and don't present any evidence, then it is not really note-worthy enough to include in wikipedia. Aberdeen01 (talk) 15:04, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The source itself seems to be a county website, not the actual bar. That's why I thought that perhaps such an interesting and novel claim--presented in the proper context, of course--might well have a place in the article. Note: I am not, in fact, arguing that Robert James actually was born in County Kerry, just for the record. LHM^{ask me a question} 15:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Also, given this, it doesn't seem as far-fetched as I initially thought. It seems that perhaps Jesse James' ancestors were from Kerry, though not likely his father. LHM^{ask me a question} 15:54, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

And finally, this source deals with the issue in a bit more depth. LHM^{ask me a question} 15:56, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

• Per this conversation, I've gutted the definitive nature of the claim as it existed, rewording it completely, and added a reference. Is that an acceptable solution to you, Aberdeen01? Having done further research, this is not just a claim made by "the owners of a pub in Kerry." LHM^{ask me a question} 16:09, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

The evidence in favor of the claim is primarily a blog by Tom O'Connor who is a tourist who writes of his travels.

The "New World Encyclopedia" link above looks like it is just using wikipedia as a source. We don't want circular references.

The book that you link to above contains the following:

Some confusion undoubtedly has arisen because of a false claim in recent years that Robert Sallee James was an immigrant from Co. Kerry, a fabrication that attract some international publicity.

If there was any doubt before. Then there shouldn't be now.

If he were from Kerry then he'd most likely have an Irish surname and he would almost certainly be Catholic.

It is just a tall tale told to tourists in Kerry.

Aberdeen01 (talk) 16:24, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

And I left no doubt in my rewrite of that little graf as to the fact that Robert James wasn't born in Kerry. What is possible (though far from certain) is that Jesse James' more distant ancestors (grandparents and older) came from there. And since the graf comes as part of a sort of memorials/legacy section (and not, say, in the history section) I see no harm in a mention of Kerry's claim, as long as it is thoroughly debunked, as it is in my rewrite. LHM^{ask me a question} 16:28, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

LHM, thanks for digging up that google books link.

I've made a minor edit.

Though I might question whether Tom O'Connors blog is a worthy reference?

However, I am just about happy with the text as it stands now.

Aberdeen01 (talk) 16:51, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

Now that better sourcing has been found, I certainly have no problem with removing the initial ref, as per your concerns. LHM^{ask me a question} 18:14, 25 September 2014 (UTC)

I contacted the owner of the "1st Stop County Kerry" website which was used as the main source.

he replied to me:

The information I have on my web-site is basically from a few people I met in Asdee, mainly in Jesse James`s Tavern about 10 years ago. I have no proof which I stated on the web site.'

Then I found this link which suggests that the owner herself is lacking evidence. She asked the question:

It is claimed that Jesse James grandfather, or possibly great-grandfather came from this Kerry village. I would appreciate any information on Jesse James and his Irish links.

Aberdeen01 (talk) 04:01, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

I appreciate the work you did there. However, that is original research, so we can't really use that in evaluating the source. With that said, as I mentioned above, I have no problem removing that source, as clearly better sourcing for that interesting myth has been found. Thanks again for doing the legwork you did, though! LHM^{ask me a question} 04:06, 27 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 December 2014

Edit request - addition to section "Television" (5.3.6) In an episode of the Twilight Zone, "Showdown with Rance McGrew," Jesse James (played by Arch Johnson) confronts McGrew, an actor who stars in a TV western, about the shabby way he and other historical outlaws are portrayed on the program. The episode was written by Rod Serling, and originally aired on February 2, 1962, during the Twilight Zone's third season. (Source: The Twilight Zone Companion by Marc Scott Zicree, published 1982) Nightfly016 (talk) 14:07, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

@Nightfly016:  Done [5], though it would be nice if you could provide a page number for the information. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 15:31, 3 December 2014 (UTC)

On Breaking Bad TV Show, S05E03: "Just because you shot Jesse James, don't make you Jesse James" http://imgur.com/gallery/fXTgF — Preceding unsigned comment added by 132.74.145.129 (talk) 07:35, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

Photographs

A poor quality photo has been repeatedly added "Jesse James 1870's. Photo taken in Webb City, Mo." whilst it may be rare, it adds nothing to the article which already has much better photos. Theroadislong (talk) 08:54, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

The photograph of Jesse James taken in Webb City was not poor quality. It is very rare and does add to the article. Interested people love seeing more photos. The full photo has Jesse's wife Zerelda and his two kids with him. It will be released next year. There are eight photos of Wyatt Earp on his page. There are almost twenty photos and illustrations on Abraham Lincoln's page. Examples of this is everywhere. Not showing photos is not sharing History.OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 00:40, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Fake Photos from Phillips Collection

I believe the two photos from the Phillips Collection; "Jesse James 1870's. Photo taken in Webb City, Mo" and "Jesse & Zerelda James. Phillips Collection" are fakes and should NOT be included in this article. They do not even look like the other pictures?! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmidty99206 (talk • contribs) 15:29, 11 August 2015 (UTC)

The photographs of Jesse James from the Phillips Collection are not fake. Facial regression analysis results will be in by spring of 2016 from leading Forensic artist Professor Cary Lane from John Jay college. We will address this again when proof is available. What is your professional background that enables you to say they are fake? Please post your degrees in either History, photography or facial analysis. OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 00:46, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 August 2015

Request to have the following pictures removed from the page as they are neither authentic nor add to the value of the page:

File:Jesse James 1870's. Photo taken in Webb City, Mo. .jpg

Jesse James 1870's. Photo taken in Webb City, Mo.

File:Jesse & Zerelda James. Phillips Collection.jpg

Jesse & Zerelda James. Phillips Collection

Also, I believe they were added by a professional daguerreotype resale company and they are using wikipedia to "justify" the pics as being real. Schmidty99206 (talk) 16:14, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

@Schmidty99206 Could you provide us with some more details, as in why you believe they are not authentic? Altamel (talk) 16:47, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Done Since there is no source as to the images (eg from a library archive etc), I've removed them. Stickee (talk) 22:51, 20 August 2015 (UTC)

Altamel, well for one thing both pics do not look anything like Jesse Woodson James. Second were they verified with the James Family, probably not? When I researched the "Phillips Collection" I found it to be a commercial business selling old daguerreotypes. I am not sure how they were authenticated to be acclaimed as Jesse Woodson James, the famed outlaw and bandit... there was no source to the postings on wikipedia that I saw? Just posting anonymous pics and making claims as to the authenticity without verification seems dubious to say the least? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Schmidty99206 (talk • contribs) 17:01, 21 August 2015 (UTC) The Phillips Collection is not a commercial business that sells daguerreotypes. I would like to see that research that made you decide this. The Phillips Collection is now getting recognition in History.net, Wild West magazine and Film production companies like 18Thirty Entertainment, Renagade Films and Cinema Bay Films. True West magazine is interested in doing articles on some of our photos. I am the agent for the Phillips Collection and the one that has posted the photos that many people are very excited about. The photos are of Jesse James. The full photograph of Jesse has Jesse's wife and two kids pictured with him. It will be released next year. We will have facial analysis results soon. We were asked by Jesse James enthusiasts to post our photos.OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 00:55, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 28 November 2015

I would like to dispute an image posting by user OSMOND PHILLIPS. This user has posted many times with non-sourced, un-reliably linked images that do not show proof that the images are who they say they are; i.e. pictures of Jesse W. James. This user has done this several times over different Wikipedia articles and is basically vandalizing by doing this, in my opinion? The image of Jesse James' funeral posting here under the Phillips Collection does not have any sources other than the Phillips Collection? I am challenging the authenticity of this image as well as any other images for articles that this user posts. Schmidty99206 (talk) 07:04, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

Not done: as you have not requested a specific change, or explained what your concern is.
Please note the threads abovem, and in the archives about photos, and the comments on some of the image pages.
More importantly, you must cite reliable sources to back up your request, without which no information should be added to, or changed in, any article. - Arjayay (talk) 15:47, 28 November 2015 (UTC)

The photograph of Jeese James funeral is extremely rare. If you compare it with the other known photo of Jesse in the open coffin for a photo shoot you can see some of the same people in both photos. The collection has around 40 photos of the James family. We were invited [and accepted] to the James Younger reunion at the James Farm Museum in Kearney, Mo last October to show out photos. We were also invited to the James Younger convention in Northfield Minnesota. We have had requests to use the photos in Documentaries. They will be seen on Discovery, History and National Geographic channels. OSMOND PHILLIPS (talk) 01:07, 30 November 2015 (UTC)

Jessie and James from Pokémon

According to the bulbapedia the names of the 'Team Rocket' members Jessie and James are taken from Jesse James. I would mention it, however, there isn't any source for this information. Can anybody help? 79.255.108.251 (talk) 20:23, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

If a source could be found for that potential fact, it would belong in the Cultural depictions of Jesse James article, not this one. Acwilson9 (talk) 22:09, 5 July 2020 (UTC)

Possible POV

The rumors of survival doesn't seem to maintain a NPOV.

"The theme of survival was featured in a 2009 documentary, Jesse James' Hidden Treasure, which aired on the History Channel. The documentary was dismissed as pseudo-history and pseudo-science by historian Nancy Samuelson in a review she wrote for the Winter 2009-2010 edition of The James-Younger Gang Journal.[65]"

This is one opinion of one historian. It isn't notable and isn't encyclopedic. I plan to remove it unless anyone feels it has reason to stay. Coin Collecting John (talk) 02:49, 25 April 2016 (UTC)

Category:American murderers

If he was a murderer, then he belongs to the Category:American murderers and Category:Murdered criminals, I think. —  Ark25  (talk) 03:33, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

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External links modified

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Semi-protected edit request on 20 April 2018

change "Jasse" to Jesse in 6.3.2 "Video Game": "Jasse James has been playable in two games Gunfighter: The Legend of Jesse James for PlayStation[88] and Gunfighter II: Revenge of Jesse James for PlayStation 2.[89]" 107.145.120.37 (talk) 02:30, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

 Done — IVORK _Discuss 02:37, 20 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 October 2018

1965: The Legend of Jesse James, TV series, played by Allen Case should read - 1965: The Legend of Jesse James, TV series, played by Christopher Jones. Allen Chase played Frank James. Hughrobinson (talk) 21:21, 5 October 2018 (UTC)

 Done I removed the incorrect entry, since it was a duplicate listing of the TV show in addition to having the error. RudolfRed (talk) 21:17, 6 October 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 March 2021

85.192.81.237 (talk) 10:17, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

I was Mariano Rajoy

No edit requested. Closing. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 10:54, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

No Meramec Caverns?

The page for Meramec Caverns mentions Jesse James, but this page doesn't mention Meramec Caverns.

Semi-protected edit request on 1 August 2022

The first word of the third paragraph, popular, should have the p capitalized. 2600:1700:5F60:6900:A4C1:1BEE:3C04:E24F (talk) 00:57, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:16, 1 August 2022 (UTC)

Family That is Alive Now

Sophia Owens-great x 6 granddaughter Frances Owens-great x6 granddaughter Max owens-great x6 grandson Dennis Owens great x4 grandson Zach Owens-great x5 grandson Esther Owens-great x5 granddaughter 184.4.84.217 (talk) 16:56, 23 November 2022 (UTC)

I don't understand

1) The text reads, : The robbery quickly went wrong, however, and after the robbery only Frank and Jesse James remained alive and free. Cole and Bob Younger later said they selected the bank because they believed it was associated with the Republican politician Adelbert Ames, the governor of Mississippi during Reconstruction, and Union general Benjamin Butler, Ames's father-in-law and the Union commander of occupied New Orleans." To me that means that all doing the robbery (except FJ & JJ) died. The gang was the Younger and James gang. BY said they selected the bank, indicating that he was involved at least in the planning (and, but maybe I am jumping to conclusions here) partaking in the robbery. So did not remain alive, yet he later said something. How does that work, spiritualism?

2) The text says JJ was cleaning the picture, whereas the legend to the picture says he is hanging it. Which was it, or did he clean it and then hang it? 2600:6C67:1C00:5F7E:F43C:597E:C305:125C (talk) 23:31, 21 July 2023 (UTC)

I don't understand to

What happens if your doing a freaking wanted poster and don't know what to add like his race,how he speaks,when he was growing up, and all of that stuff 2601:140:4100:3CF0:F02C:77F:A6C1:24A2 (talk) 21:01, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Was part of the jungle gang

Jung 201.198.222.39 (talk) 09:53, 27 September 2024 (UTC)

Crittenden reward?

The article, while talking about robberies in 1869, says that Governor Crittenden set a reward for James's capture. But Crittenden didn't become governor until 1881. So are we talking about an event that happened a dozen years after the robberies in 1869, or a reward offered by an earlier governor? Either way, the article should be changed. john k (talk) 22:14, 11 October 2024 (UTC)