Talk:Chiang Kai-shek

Birth country Qing Empire or Qing China?

What should we refer to the China that was led by the Qing dynasty: Qing Empire or Qing China? Also says birthplace as Qing Empire on the Sun Yat-sen article. Alexysun (talk) 06:29, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Be wary of WP:OTHERCONTENT as an argument in itself. I frankly think it's clunky to list either in the context of an infobox. It's not relevant here since he was born in a different polity than he died in, but it's not that bizarre much of the time in the case of China to omit the dynasty in one or both parameters imo. If we have to list something, I think "Qing China" is bad, but "Qing Empire" is worse. "Qing dynasty" is likely the most correct on Wikipedia, as it's a pretty natural synecdoche when referring to the polity. I might prefer simply "Qing", but that wouldn't really work on Wikipedia. Remsense诉 06:38, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

Ok. You said a lot of things without offering a definitive solution. His article on the Traditional Chinese Wikipedia states his birthplace as "大清浙江省宁波府奉化縣溪口鎮玉泰鹽鋪". 大清 directly translates to Big Qing or Great Qing. So I'd say Qing Empire or Qing China isn't bad. Alexysun (talk) 07:19, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

I did, though. I mentioned two options that I do not like, and an option I prefer.

If we don't make choices based solely on what other English Wikipedia articles say, then we surely do not based on what other language Wikipedias say. We're trying to choose terminology that's well-understood and natural for an English language audience. That's probably simply "Qing dynasty", which is also the article name. By comparison, "Qing China" and "Qing Empire" are not the terms preferred by most writers, and they look a bit clunky and unnatural. When in doubt, use the article name. Remsense诉 07:24, 17 May 2024 (UTC)

@Remsense Ok I get what you're saying now. You're trying to use terms that are most commonly used/understood in English-speaking society. Alexysun (talk) 17:02, 19 May 2024 (UTC)

As is policy on the English Wikipedia, yes. Remsense诉 14:21, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Note that the corresponding article on Chinese Wikipedia currently actually states his birthplace as "清朝浙江省宁波府奉化县溪口镇玉泰盐铺", where "清朝" means Qing dynasty. Clearly it is the norm (EDIT: what I meant is that it is the norm even in the Chinese language). --Wengier (talk) 16:43, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

While I do think this gestures to evidence, there's certainly a lot of Chinese-language style norms we don't adapt across wikis into English, Remsense诉 17:07, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Of course, Chinese-language style norms and English-language style norms may be very different, such as in the case of Northern Yuan. But in this case, it is actually the norm even in the Chinese language. --Wengier (talk) 17:11, 30 June 2024 (UTC)

Order of Brilliant Jade

If anyone can find a source for him receiving the Order of Brilliant Jade, adding it to the article for the award as well would be appreciated. Thanks. Damien Linnane (talk) 00:50, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Should we change the name of this article to Chiang Chung-cheng?

I think we should change the name of this article to Chiang Chung-cheng. In the Chinese Wikipedia page on the subject of this article, he is referred to as “蔣中正”, which is “Chiang Chung-cheng, rather than “蔣介石”, which is “Chiang Kai-shek”. Also, Chiang Chung-cheng was the preferred name of the subject of this article, while “Chiang Kai-shek” was the Cantonese transcription of his pen name. Also, many monuments dedicated to him in the Sinophone world uses “Chiang Chung-cheng” or “Chung-cheng” rather than “Chiang Kai-shek” or “Kai-shek”. For example, “中正紀念堂”, translates to “Chung-cheng Memorial Hall”. Hankow idk (talk) 16:26, 13 November 2024 (UTC)