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History of Kenmare

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The reference to occupation of Kenmare by "Celtic" people prior to the English is wildly inaccurate. Not only does the term Celtic mean little or nothing in academic or archaeological terms nowadays but traditionally "Celtic" would have been used to describe people in the Iron Age, whereas stone circles and boulder dolmens anre attributed to the Bronze Age and Neolithic periods.... several thousands of years earlier. "Celtic" should not be used as a catch all term, it's just plain worng. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.138.104.121 (talk) 13:54, 23 June 2008 (UTC)[reply]

old post

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It would be nice if people didn't just throw facts in and left it to others to build these facts into meaningful sentences.

Better to add the facts into the discussion area here.

Harry Potter and Star Trek

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I'm removing these items because they're utterly trivial and our inclusion of them destroys the weighting of the article. --Tony Sidaway 13:48, 13 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Both the Harry Potter and Star Trek items are relevant to this article as they are a unique link between Kenmare and the world of glitzy Hollywood and glamour. Removing them is out of touch with modern society and harks of backwardness. These two items are as relevant as any other piece on the article. Do not remove them again. --Netwhizkid 19:22, 15 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

A unique link between Kenmare and the world of glity Hollywood and glamour? The idea that this kind of trivia is as relevant as "any other piece on the article" is laughable. Are you actually claiming that this trivia has as much merit to the article as information about the population, history, and tourist economy of the town? I haven't personally made any moves to remove the trivia myself, although I find the claim that such a removal is "censorship" to be very silly. Besides, according to WP:TRIVIA shouldn't we be avoiding trivia sections anyway? Robotforaday 11:45, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
They're staying out because frankly they make the article look pathetic, which Kenmare does not deserve. --Tony Sidaway 13:38, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Okay guys, cool down. We don't want to get into an edit war here - it does nothing but harm Wikipedia. Now, in an effort to better understand the dispute, can I ask both parties to make a brief statement, outlining in a few bullet points why they wish for the information being dispute on should or should not be included? Anthøny 19:47, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

My Statement: I feel that both the Harry Potter piece and Star Trek should be included in the article;

  • As both sets of fiction have massive fan bases; Harry Potter has sold more than three hundred million books and star trek has countless amounts of fans. I think it does not do the article justice to exclude these items when many other areas like Leenaun lap up all the attention a claim to fame like that gives.
  • The Harry Potter part has been on the article since the 5th November 2004 and nobody saw fit to dislodge in the numerous edits since until Tony Sidaway removed it on the 5th of August. In one of my edits I reordered both the Harry Potter and Star Trek pieces to give the William Petty piece 1st priority in the trivia section.
  • A local basketball team has been set up called the "Kenmare Kestrels" obviously the mention from the famous books are not lost on the locals. The Basketball team is mentioned Here
  • The Star Trek piece has been on the article since the 23rd of October and has not been targeted until now also.
  • To finish both of these pieces deserve to be on the article and they are unique pieces of history that intertwine with a community, maybe in years to come the iPod generation of now could say to their grandkids, back in the day Kenmare even got a mention in that famous harry potter and star trek. They are nothing to be ashamed or embarrassed about quite the contrary.


The article certainly needs more work and fighting over what goes in it isn't going to help, I think it is very silly that there is not even a mention of the 15th of August fair that attracted thousands of people to Kenmare yesterday.End of statement--Netwhizkid 20:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Well, thanks for that. My argument for removing the two items from the article is that they're both bits of juvenile, putrid wankery and Wikipedia would be better off without them. --Tony Sidaway 23:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
This concept that the world revolves around Harry Potter is becoming uncomfortably pervasive. I applaud Tony's attempts to bring everyone back to reality on this issue. To respond to netwhizkid's statements, I would suggest the following: 1) Just because a bit of text has remained on an article for a long time doesn't speak to its appropriateness to be in the article. This is a wiki, it's meant to change. and 2) I think that including *how* the community has responded to these brushes with Harry-Potter-ness might be appropriate, but simply the mention isn't really worth mentioning. An annual festival or something like that might be worth mentioning. kmccoy (talk) 23:56, 16 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The 15th of August Fair Netwhizkid was referring to goes back a couple of hundred years, and is nothing to do with Harry Potter- I think he was just bringing it up as an example of an area in which the article could be improved to give better coverage. Robotforaday 09:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unfortunately, they're not "unique pieces of history that intertwine with a community", rather, they're throwaway mentions in works of popular fiction and hardly encyclopedic. Kenmare has a lot more to offer Wikipedia than snippets of Harry Potter and Space Opera trivia. I was the editor that added the image of the town to the article. As part of my offering, I'll try to add something a little more encyclopedic over the next few days - Alison ☺ 00:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I don't have an opinion either way, but it might help if anyone could cite examples of how similiar popular fiction references to other real Irish towns are treated. Either included or excluded. Are there Quiddich teams named for other places?. Re 15th Aug: Im "being bold" and going ahead to put in a reference to the fair days in the article.--Rye1967 10:14, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "My argument for removing the two items from the article is that they're both bits of juvenile, putrid wankery and Wikipedia would be better off without them. --Tony Sidaway 23:41, 16 August 2007 (UTC)"

Get over yourself. Just because you don't appreciate pop-culture doesn't mean other people don't have to. FTR, every other Quiddicth team is named after other places. I know it's fiction, but Ulysses takes place in Dublin and there's a Ulysses festival every year.

Basically you're saying that people who like HP and ST and think they deserve a mention on this page are wankers? What age are you, 11?SexyIrishLeprechaun 14:07, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ulysses is set entirely in Dublin, and much of the plot revolves around particular Dublin locations. Harry Potter is not set in Kenmare. Star Trek is not set in Kenmare. Kenmare does not feature in either particularly prominently - it's mentioned at the level of "throw away remark". Robotforaday 14:18, 17 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I know I'm way late on this, but I actually think they could be included under: References in Popular Culture. Considering the tiny size of the town and population (I lived there for 3 years) I find it quite surprising that Kenmare is pinpointed in such a way in Star Trek - something that would have been viewed by millions around the globe (and will be for a long time to come probably). Not sure about the HP mention - it sounds like it was just a random name, but I don't know the book so I could be wrong. --Tuzapicabit (talk) 19:31, 17 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Stone Circle

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This says it's one of the biggest stone circles in Ireland. Is this true? I've been there and it's pretty small - certainly not your big Stonehange type stones. It's quite a unsettling little spot though - can anyone get a picture up here?--Tuzapicabit (talk) 15:17, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Unsure about "one of the biggest in Ireland", but "Megalithomania" (which is often pretty accurate on these types of Irish sites) notes it as "perhaps the biggest in the south-west of Ireland". I have updated to reflect this. (Unfortunately I don't have a photo). Guliolopez (talk) 18:12, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]
OK thanks for that.--Tuzapicabit (talk) 19:59, 25 November 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Name in the Irish Language =

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The article used to give the IMHO ungrammatical "ceann mhara". This is not plausible since ceann is masculine, and mara is feminine so unless a form *ceann a' mhara is proposed where there is (i) an article and also (ii) muiri is either taken to be masculine (not impossible as this is an old neuter) or is not a genitive, but in any event the form that was given would be inaccurate. Furthermore the anglicized form does not support the view that the name is lenited although this could easily reflect more recent changes in the language. The form in any case should probably have an article so either "ceann na mara" or "ceann a' mhara" or else "(an) ceann mara" seem to be the only alternatives. Someone needs to look up a reliable source and cite it properly.83.105.29.229 (talk) 13:16, 1 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Inber Scéne

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The identification of Inber Scéne with the Kenmare River is speculative. Here's what R. A. S. Macalister says about this placename in the introduction to his translation of The Book of Invasions (Lebor Gabála Érenn): Incidentally Orosius gave trouble to Irish topographers, ancient and modern, by speaking of an Irish river Scena, setting them on a hunt for a non-existent Inber Scēne. As sc conventionally represents the sound of sh (compare the Vulgate Judges, xii, 6, where the Hebrew word shibbolēth is rendered scibboleth), we must pronounce this word Shena, and it is easily recognised as Orosius' version of Sinann (genitive Sinna) or "Shannon". Eroica (talk) 15:02, 13 August 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Correct Spelling of An Néidín

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An Néidín with a fada over the é. Source: http://www.dinglenews.com/news.asp?id=4155 The Dingle News 12 Feb 2011 "Rachaidh an fhoireann fé 13 isteach i gcomórtas pláta anois i gcoinne Lios Tuathail agus An Néidín, dhá fhoireann go mbuadar ina gcoinne cheana."— Preceding unsigned comment added by Irl32csc (talk • contribs)

Hi. With the greatest respect to your good-self and the Dingle News blog, the official placenames commission is a much more reliable source. It is a statutory body charged with authoritatively standardising Irish placenames. It uses local, academic and postoffice sources, and it uses a spelling with no fada on the "e". Further, the derivation is from "nest", and the word for nest (nead) does not have a fada over the e either. As such, again with the greatest respect, the Dingle News ref is probably just a simple misspelling. And, if not a misspelling, then it is a non-standard spelling that does not follow the _official_ format, and is not what we should use here. Guliolopez (talk) 09:05, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the detailed clarification you provided and the link to the Placenames of Ireland database both of which are appreciated. Irl32csc (talk) 18:48, 14 July 2011 (UTC)[reply]

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